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So, trying to keep this short;

About 8 years ago I commissioned a 3D model of an Australian car with a view to vacuum forming the bodies from lexan for remote control cars.

3D printing was nowhere near as accessible as it is now, so I sat on the model until recently.

I started the hobby of slot car racing, specifically 1/32 scale Scalextric style models. I have also built a 3D printing business so thought I found a use for my model.

I discovered a fellow racer in the same country that made resin slot car bodies. He had a knack for producing very high quality models and was selling completed cars for crazy money.

I offered to trade with him the rights to the body in exchange for a completed car.

It was in our back and forth that a horrible realty struck me. He was obtaining the original positive models for his collection by buying die cast cars, disassembling them and taking moulds of the cars. This guy’s Australian Business is based around, essentially, recasting.

The process is not quite the same, I believe he fills the shell with clay then slush casts the shells.

I printed another model for him that he found online, and I forgot to scale it up.

He lost his gak when this happened and became abusive, pages and pages of abuse over days, including Christmas, public posts calling me out on his Facebook that have since been deleted, accusing me of deliberately sending him a small positive because reasons?

I mean, not to be racist, but the Chinaforge guys kinda have an air of secrecy, for the most part they don’t openly advertise what they do, especially on social media!

I guess what I don’t understand is how the slot community can be okay with people making bodies this way, and in such volume, and how a manufacturer hasn’t beat his ass yet?

Sorry for the long post.

I’ll take my bat and ball and go home now

Perfectly normal in railway modeling also.

There is no point in re-sculpting a particular model of a real life car since you're not adding any original content either way.

There are two reasons they haven't been caught yet.

First is that they have to actually be discovered. And when you're in another country, especially China, it can be impossible to actually get any legal recourse.

The 2nd is that in this case it can be impossible to prove copyright infringement. The Die-cast model car company is the one who would want to press legal action. However, they themselves don't own the rights to the visual features of the model cars. Those belong to the Car Company who makes the real cars these model cars are based on. And that car company has almost certainly sold the rights to make model versions of their cars to many many different model car companies. Thats assuming the car design hasn't become public domain as well.

So a recaster might be buying X company's models to ripoff the design from, but X company would have an impossible job to prove that. The recaster could have been using Y company's models instead. Or perhaps he privately commissioned a 3D render of the original vehicle. And if the vehicle design in question is public domain well then you've got no recourse at all.

Its kinda like all those companies would make WW2 models and miniatures. They have absolutely no copyright to any of their model designs unless they significantly alter them from their historical aesthetic. So even if someone was completely ripping off someone's miniatures, proving it in court would be almost impossible if its a public domain IP.

And even if it was an IP that was still clearly owned by a specific company, it would be a question if a company wants to bother defending that IP. Dodge probably doesn't care if some no-name guy is selling bootleg Charger RC cars out of his garage. Dodge doesn't make RC cars and its not worth the potential lost licensing fees.

On a very slight tangent, why would you want to out something as heavy as a cast resin body on a slot car?

It's been a long time since I was involved in the hobby, but when I was it was exclusively competitive in all the clubs I ever visited. Lots of pure hobbying in terrain and trackbuilding, but cars were 100% performance. Maybe this was slightly unusual and specific to the east of Scotland or has changed drastically since the 90s?

lord_blackfang wrote:Perfectly normal in railway modeling also.

There is no point in re-sculpting a particular model of a real life car since you're not adding any original content either way.

So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

Grey Templar wrote:There are two reasons they haven't been caught yet.

First is that they have to actually be discovered. And when you're in another country, especially China, it can be impossible to actually get any legal recourse.

The 2nd is that in this case it can be impossible to prove copyright infringement. The Die-cast model car company is the one who would want to press legal action. However, they themselves don't own the rights to the visual features of the model cars. Those belong to the Car Company who makes the real cars these model cars are based on. And that car company has almost certainly sold the rights to make model versions of their cars to many many different model car companies. Thats assuming the car design hasn't become public domain as well.

So a recaster might be buying X company's models to ripoff the design from, but X company would have an impossible job to prove that. The recaster could have been using Y company's models instead. Or perhaps he privately commissioned a 3D render of the original vehicle. And if the vehicle design in question is public domain well then you've got no recourse at all.

Its kinda like all those companies would make WW2 models and miniatures. They have absolutely no copyright to any of their model designs unless they significantly alter them from their historical aesthetic. So even if someone was completely ripping off someone's miniatures, proving it in court would be almost impossible if its a public domain IP.

And even if it was an IP that was still clearly owned by a specific company, it would be a question if a company wants to bother defending that IP. Dodge probably doesn't care if some no-name guy is selling bootleg Charger RC cars out of his garage. Dodge doesn't make RC cars and its not worth the potential lost licensing fees.

I get all of that, but again, if it’s left open and unenforced, what’s my motivation for producing new designs if I know some guy is going to rip me off down the track?

nfe wrote:On a very slight tangent, why would you want to out something as heavy as a cast resin body on a slot car?

It's been a long time since I was involved in the hobby, but when I was it was exclusively competitive in all the clubs I ever visited. Lots of pure hobbying in terrain and trackbuilding, but cars were 100% performance. Maybe this was slightly unusual and specific to the east of Scotland or has changed drastically since the 90s?

I have a vintage Womp, with a lexan shell, and the front tyres are o-rings. It’s light, but not nearly as fun to drive.

Take these Maserati 250Fs. They are supposedly limited edition, yet I race them. They get blown away on the track, but they are hella fun to drive.



The resin cars are slush cast, so that cuts the weight down, and in most cases they are raced more for enjoyment than actual speed.

 industriald wrote:
So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

Yes?

 industriald wrote:
If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

The majority of hobbyists who purchase them legally?

 Ouze wrote:

 industriald wrote:
So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

Yes?

 industriald wrote:
If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

The majority of hobbyists who purchase them legally?

Yeah. Its a matter of scale. May as well ask 'Why risk going to the store when you might be mugged?'

Ouze wrote:

 industriald wrote:
So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

Yes?

 industriald wrote:
If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

The majority of hobbyists who purchase them legally?

True that.

Voss wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 industriald wrote:
So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

Yes?

 industriald wrote:
If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

The majority of hobbyists who purchase them legally?

Yeah. Its a matter of scale. May as well ask 'Why risk going to the store when you might be mugged?'

That’s fair. I guess I just have to do what I do better than my current competition and “get while the gettin’s good”.

 industriald wrote:

So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

No, what you're doing is the common fallacy of only counting the physical labour of crafting the object as work, but discounting design (ie. intellectual labour). The original product was a CAD drawing done for the manufacturer of the real life car. The first scale model of it was a licensed or unlicensed copy of that design. So will the second or third scale model sculpt be. The "sculptor" is not getting ripped off here since he did not do any intellectual work, the car designer is. And this doesn't change if you copy or resculpt his original design.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 industriald wrote:

So basically in this day and age, anyone that produces a physical product is open to be ripped off by any bloke with some silicone and a vacuum chamber?

If that’s the case, what’s my motivation to produce original products?

No, what you're doing is the common fallacy of only counting the physical labour of crafting the object as work, but discounting design (ie. intellectual labour). The original product was a CAD drawing done for the manufacturer of the real life car. The first scale model of it was a licensed or unlicensed copy of that design. So will the second or third scale model sculpt be. The "sculptor" is not getting ripped off here since he did not do any intellectual work, the car designer is. And this doesn't change if you copy or resculpt his original design.

I get what you mean, but I’m not discounting design - in fact I alluded to producing original products myself in later replies.

I think you are saying that the person I referenced is using intellectual product, either licensed or not, in an unauthorised fashion.

I could be wrong, though.