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Someone showed me a hypothetical list for a Astra Militarum list that only dropped 4-5 units at deployment, the rest were various Troop units that start embarked in the Super Transports of 3 Gorgon Heavy Transporter and a Crassus Armoured Assault Vehicle.

Now, with Tactical Reserves rule, I believe that is not a legal list for a Matched Play environment. It does not meet the "at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield" requirement even if it does meet the "the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during deployment (including those that are embarked aboard Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value" requirement.

They are claiming that the Tactical Reserves rule does not have any effect on the list as there is nothing being placed in a "reserve" and that the current Tactical Reserve rule only counts things that are going to be deepstriked in later.

So, it all boils down to the question of: Does units inside the Transports count as being Deployed for both Requirements of Tactical Reserves rule?

 Draco765 wrote:
Someone showed me a hypothetical list for a Astra Militarum list that only dropped 4-5 units at deployment, the rest were various Troop units that start embarked in the Super Transports of 3 Gorgon Heavy Transporter and a Crassus Armoured Assault Vehicle.

Now, with Tactical Reserves rule, I believe that is not a legal list for a Matched Play environment. It does not meet the "at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield" requirement even if it does meet the "the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during deployment (including those that are embarked aboard Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value" requirement.

They are claiming that the Tactical Reserves rule does not have any effect on the list as there is nothing being placed in a "reserve" and that the current Tactical Reserve rule only counts things that are going to be deepstriked in later.

So, it all boils down to the question of: Does units inside the Transports count as being Deployed for both Requirements of Tactical Reserves rule?

Special Snowflake FAQ says yes even though RaW says no.

Q: The Tactical Reserves matched play rule states that at least
half the total number of units in my army must be set up on the
battlefield during Deployment. If I have units embarked in a
transport, do they count against the number of units I have to set
up during Deployment? If, for example, I have a Valkyrie with
three units embarked inside it that will arrive on the battlefield
during the game, how many other units do I need to set up
during Deployment to satisfy the Tactical Reserves rule?
A: Yes, embarked units count as units in your army, so must
be counted when referring to this rule. If you have three
units embarked inside a transport that will arrive during
the game, you need to set up at least four other units on
the battlefield during Deployment – equivalently, if you set
up three units in a transport on the battlefield, you could
set up four other units to arrive during the game.

I'm not completely sure if I understand correctly: are those Gorgan/CRASSUS being placed in the deployment phase or are they deepstriked (by the Tallarn ambush I assume)?

If they are on the table turn 1 I'm pretty sure everyone inside those transports counts as being on the table.

I dont get it either. The way you describe it, it sounds like the the transports arent deployed on the battlefield. If they arent deployed on the battlefield they dont count to satisfy the tactical reserves rule.

Tactical Reserves is no longer a general thing that you can do with any unit in any scenario. It only shows up in certain mission types. Many special mission rules are pretty broken so you just have to work around them.

No confusion or Special Snowflake FAQ here. The Tactical Reserves rule clearly state that at unit embarked in a transport that is deployed on the battlefield count as deployed for the purposes of unit count and points value. If the transport is not on the board, the units deployed in it count on the other side of the ledger. The FAQ just spells it out for those who are confused.

 alextroy wrote:
No confusion or Special Snowflake FAQ here. The Tactical Reserves rule clearly state that at unit embarked in a transport that is deployed on the battlefield count as deployed for the purposes of unit count and points value. If the transport is not on the board, the units deployed in it count on the other side of the ledger. The FAQ just spells it out for those who are confused.

No, it doesn't. RaW it only applies to the points clause, not the units clause.

My reading comprehension seems low today, so I have to ask and clarify;

Is the question whether or not units embarked in transports that are on the table are considered in "tactical reserves" or "deployed on the table"?

Or is the question something else because theres "deep strike" or other similar "reserves" rules being played on the transport and as such, it isn't on the table and theres a question on where the embarked passengers count as "deployed" or in "reserves"?

I'm just trying to clearly follow the thread here..

 LordOfWar wrote:
My reading comprehension seems low today, so I have to ask and clarify;

Is the question whether or not units embarked in transports that are on the table are considered in "tactical reserves" or "deployed on the table"?

Yes, it appears so.

For clarity's sake, yes - units that are embarked on a transport count as being in the same "state" as the transport per the FAQ. If the transport is deployed on the table, so too are the embarked units. If the transport is in "deep strike", again same thing for the units embarked.

LordOfWar wrote:My reading comprehension seems low today, so I have to ask and clarify;

Is the question whether or not units embarked in transports that are on the table are considered in "tactical reserves" or "deployed on the table"?

Or is the question something else because theres "deep strike" or other similar "reserves" rules being played on the transport and as such, it isn't on the table and theres a question on where the embarked passengers count as "deployed" or in "reserves"?

I'm just trying to clearly follow the thread here..

Larks wrote:

 LordOfWar wrote:
My reading comprehension seems low today, so I have to ask and clarify;

Is the question whether or not units embarked in transports that are on the table are considered in "tactical reserves" or "deployed on the table"?

Yes, it appears so.

For clarity's sake, yes - units that are embarked on a transport count as being in the same "state" as the transport per the FAQ. If the transport is deployed on the table, so too are the embarked units. If the transport is in "deep strike", again same thing for the units embarked.

Recap the original deployment question:

During Deployment Player A Places on the Table 3 "Gorgon Heavy Transporter" with 50 Infantry in each and 1 Crassus Armoured Assault Vehicle with 35 Infantry inside it as well.

Now, from my understanding once Deployment is over, two things must be true:

There must be more units on the Table than not.

AND

The Total value of the models that are not on the table must be less than the total value of what is on the Table.

And I understand that this might no longer be true. With the changes to deployment rules over the years and not really dealing with transports that much I might have missed a change in the spaghetti of FAQ/Erratas.

The FAQ entry BCB quoted is interesting, as the original question starts with a similar situation, but then the "for example" part goes off on something in Reserve and the answer seems to be skewed more towards the In Reserve portion.

Units in transports that are on the table are not reserves. The reserves rule applies to units held in deepstrike.

The FAQ question for those who don't want to look for it:

Q: The Tactical Reserves matched play rule states that at least
half the total number of units in my army must be set up on the
battlefield during Deployment. If I have units embarked in a
transport, do they count against the number of units I have to set
up during Deployment? If, for example, I have a Valkyrie with
three units embarked inside it that will arrive on the battlefield
during the game, how many other units do I need to set up
during Deployment to satisfy the Tactical Reserves rule?
A: Yes, embarked units count as units in your army, so must
be counted when referring to this rule. If you have three
units embarked inside a transport that will arrive during
the game, you need to set up at least four other units on
WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK 12
the battlefield during Deployment – equivalently, if you set
up three units in a transport on the battlefield, you could
set up four other units to arrive during the game.


Now, it only deals with units, but it seems that most people playing apply this also to the points of the units as well as the number. GW seems to have forgotten that they have added the points requirement as well as the number of units requirement (this may have been put in the FAQ before they had the points as well as the number of units requirement and GW just forgot to update the question).

GW has at least signaled their intention of counting units in a transport on the board as also being on the board for purposes of reserves, which is why most people play it that way. You can check with your TO or your opponent beforehand if they play that they count the points in the transport as well as the number of units. If they don't you might take it as an indication that you wouldn't enjoy playing against that person.

If the unit counts, you count it’s points. If you need that spelling out separately that’s not really on GW.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If the unit counts, you count it’s points. If you need that spelling out separately that’s not really on GW.

Yes, I would have assumed that went without saying.

I mean, you're instructed to compare the total points of units deployed on the battlefield and those not. The FAQ quoted specifically states that units embarked on a transport that is deployed on the battlefield count as deployed on the battlefield themselves, so why wouldn't you count their points when totaling the cost of... deployed units?