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So, yesterday I was assembling my models and I thought: "Hey, it would be cool to have big squad of bloodcrushers as I already have their buffers and they get strong buffs from their numbers". I looked how much they would cost. 78 euros for six of them... I was shocked that Flesh Hounds cost 40 euros for 5 models too...

Now, I'm here not to complain that prices are too high paradoxically enough. I'm puzzled about how GW is pricing their individual items that it makes this all so more perplexing. I do consider their deals to be actually decent value for their products. Look here:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Start-Collecting-Daemons-of-Khorne-2018

70 euros and I get 3 Bloodcrushers, 10 Bloodletters and a Herald on Blood Throne. I personally call that a decent deal considering how expensive Warhammer is and knowing prices of a lot of miniature makers, getting equivalent of 15 models (herald is a bigger model, rounding up + you get free shipping and a small discount if you order from your hobby store) for 70 euros puts them at 4,6 euro per model. It is a fair price in my view. I consider all such deals from that I saw and can remember as great deals. One of those starter packs are enough to start having fun with this hobby! I played with.

https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/faction-box/54856-start-collecting-khorne-bloodbound-goreblade-warband

It costs 60 euros normally and during demo I did not felt that my army was bare bones. I had fun and wanted to play more with this set.


Now, this is where nonsense begins, if I want to expand my army with specific units, I practically must to purchase multiple boxes of these bundles, because it is far cheaper. Even if I do not need those additional models, you still a lot better at just selling them up on ebay eventually. Here is another example, I see that demon army which I'm assembling right now often benefits from big squad sizes. Yet, my battlebox contained only a minimal amount of units. In order to increase squad sizes, it makes a lot more sense to purchase another Wrath and Rapture set for roughly 80 euros than to pay around 70 euros with all the discounts from my hobby store!

Now compare with this. Do you want to pay 78 euros for 6 Bloodcrushers OR get entire army of Khorne with this bundle?

https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/faction-box/71700-blades-of-khorne-faction-bundle

See what I'm talking about? There are a lot of reasonably priced GW products out there and I enjoy paying money for them. Yet, some of them are so ridiculously priced that it just frustrates me to no end!


This creates an interesting situation. At a price of fully stocking up on Bloodcrushers and Flesh Hounds, I might as well buy an entire Khorne army from ebay. At 150 euros you can start buying off people entire collections. I see same nonsense with Warmachine miniatures too. They are not cheaper and they produce worse quality stuff. Yet, I had noticed that it would be cheaper for me to buy off an entire collection and then just add whatever I want to have to it. I do understand that used items lose their value, but I also have to add quite a few units which I prefer over combination of units I get in collection I buy (like lack of Bloodcrushers).


In the end, everybody knows or should know that you do not buy from GW directly. This is not their business model, their store is only for browsing and only complete newbies buy from them themselves. You buy from your hobby store, this way you get free shipping and depending on a store, you get discount. In my case, it is 10% from anything I order through their store. It is extremely handy with bulky packages as I do not have to pay 40 euros for shipping. Also, sometimes you can have SURPRISE discounts. I saw GW manipulating their prices, suddenly rising prices of their models out of a blue. This is why other retailers have maximum price lower than that of GW. This also means that GW sometimes forget to rise price of models to their retailers... So, I get 10% discount on top of old price. It is pleasant when it happens, but in general just frustrating of not knowing how much anything costs. So, all comparisons which I did are just slightly better for GW than I had presented them here. Yet, even other retailers are selling packs of Bloodcrushers for ridiculous prices.



BTW: I also can't tell any difference between these two models. They seem to be made of identical parts and I'm not pleased by their quality already. My Flesh Hounds for example did not glued together perfectly, there are very small gaps between parts at some places. I'm also not pleased by just how limited they are pose wise. You can only glue them in one fashion. Where is my freedom to glue my model in whatever pose I want to? Also, I never had purchased bigger models from GW who cost over hundred euros. I would be happy to pay money they are asking IF I would know that I'm getting some quality stuff. Now, I'm not happy with amount of poses models can have. Big part of this hobby is making each model just the way I like it. Now I have to pay premium for a product which is not even premium. 28 mm scale is awful to work with and it looks just bad. Did you ever inspected individual parts at this scale? How skulls for example looks next to my Flesh hound's feet? All those small parts are just a pain to paint and they plain out look bad, because scale is too small to give sufficiently sharp details to these small details.

Edit: If those Bloodcrushers from GW store would have unlimited poses I would be more inclined toward purchasing them, but I can't tell the difference between my plastic sprues and theirs. I also paid for Wrath and Rapture set exactly 88,88 euros. I get Khornish vibes out there! HELP!

 Ernestas wrote:

BTW: I also can't tell any difference between these two models. They seem to be made of identical parts and I'm not pleased by their quality already. My Flesh Hounds for example did not glued together perfectly, there are very small gaps between parts at some places. I'm also not pleased by just how limited they are pose wise. You can only glue them in one fashion. Where is my freedom to glue my model in whatever pose I want to? Also, I never had purchased bigger models from GW who cost over hundred euros. I would be happy to pay money they are asking IF I would know that I'm getting some quality stuff. Now, I'm not happy with amount of poses models can have. Big part of this hobby is making each model just the way I like it. Now I have to pay premium for a product which is not even premium. 28 mm scale is awful to work with and it looks just bad. Did you ever inspected individual parts at this scale? How skulls for example looks next to my Flesh hound's feet? All those small parts are just a pain to paint and they plain out look bad, because scale is too small to give sufficiently sharp details to these small details.

Edit: If those Bloodcrushers from GW store would have unlimited poses I would be more inclined toward purchasing them, but I can't tell the difference between my plastic sprues and theirs. I also paid for Wrath and Rapture set exactly 88,88 euros. I get Khornish vibes out there! HELP!

So if you don't like the models why buy them?
If you don't buy them, then it doesn't matter what the price or scale is.

The only thing really curious about their pricing is how off the wall it tends to be. Sometimes it makes no rhyme or reason and they use magical conversions for the prices in different places.

The only thing they do that is magical in that regard is jack up the solo boxes so much as to make even a poor deal seem like a miracle by comparison. As well make previously over expensive boxes seem reasonable only held up to more current offerings.

They are a magical company indeed.

Wow, that's a whole lot of text to say "I'm mad at myself for spending money on an unnecessary, luxury item".

I can't fathom the audacity of character model pricing. Appreciate they may not shift as many units as say an Incesstor kit but damn are those prices on the wrong side of egregious.

Oddly, I thought Abaddon was reasonably priced.

They have a wierd tendency to also let the pricinb be influenced on the points a unit costs sometimes, also HQ's are a must for all armies therefore, GW is milking where GW can.

They definitely overprice on some of their models when comparing to others.

Why does a single tyrranid biovore cost as much as a 10 man of troops for example, when you can take 3 biovores in a single unit.

Why did they jack land raider prices up to $75 when they are using basically the same kit they sold for $50 8 years ago? The molds have to be paid off already, and inflation hasn't gone up 50%.


Im completely fine with the mentality of "If they pay for it, we priced it right", but arbitrary price jacks do not seem like the best way to grow your market.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
They definitely overprice on some of their models when comparing to others.

Why does a single tyrranid biovore cost as much as a 10 man of troops for example, when you can take 3 biovores in a single unit.

Why did they jack land raider prices up to $75 when they are using basically the same kit they sold for $50 8 years ago? The molds have to be paid off already, and inflation hasn't gone up 50%.


Im completely fine with the mentality of "If they pay for it, we priced it right", but arbitrary price jacks do not seem like the best way to grow your market.

I sometimes have a feeling that GW is whale hunting as it is described in the Gaming industy.
And parade exemples are new models / HQ.

Exception wierdly enough a recentish one was the adversaries from BSF, which were extremely cheap. But it is the only one in recent times beyond the bundles.

ccs wrote:

 Ernestas wrote:

BTW: I also can't tell any difference between these two models. They seem to be made of identical parts and I'm not pleased by their quality already. My Flesh Hounds for example did not glued together perfectly, there are very small gaps between parts at some places. I'm also not pleased by just how limited they are pose wise. You can only glue them in one fashion. Where is my freedom to glue my model in whatever pose I want to? Also, I never had purchased bigger models from GW who cost over hundred euros. I would be happy to pay money they are asking IF I would know that I'm getting some quality stuff. Now, I'm not happy with amount of poses models can have. Big part of this hobby is making each model just the way I like it. Now I have to pay premium for a product which is not even premium. 28 mm scale is awful to work with and it looks just bad. Did you ever inspected individual parts at this scale? How skulls for example looks next to my Flesh hound's feet? All those small parts are just a pain to paint and they plain out look bad, because scale is too small to give sufficiently sharp details to these small details.

Edit: If those Bloodcrushers from GW store would have unlimited poses I would be more inclined toward purchasing them, but I can't tell the difference between my plastic sprues and theirs. I also paid for Wrath and Rapture set exactly 88,88 euros. I get Khornish vibes out there! HELP!

So if you don't like the models why buy them?
If you don't buy them, then it doesn't matter what the price or scale is.

Hmm, how it is best said? Imagine that you buy yourself Forge World Warlord Titan for 1500 euros and it comes missing some pieces and some of them are damaged. Would it be a reasonable to demand ForgeWorld to send those bits free of charge? With higher price comes higher expectations. Now, mom buys to her kid bunch of toy soldiers for 10 euros, would it be reasonable if she starts making a lot of trouble for a company if one of the soldiers has his gun bended?

If I'm paying premium for, lets say, those 5 Flesh Hounds for 40 bucks, I expect models to glue together cleanly. I want models to be more flexible rather than each model being rigid and in their individual poses. Maybe I got spoiled by Warmachine already, but I do enjoy being able to shift where my model is looking, where is his legs, how my model is moving his arms and holding its weapons. It had allowed me to express myself in small ways by making some better poses than on box art. It also makes you want to dismantle your model and to improve your stances if you want something different. I guess it is just downside of GW manufacturing techniques that they can't make a lot of molds for each model. Though, I'm surprised that they didn't tried to innovate with 3D printing already. I do believe that this technology could really cut the cost of low demand items like conversion kits. It also would be ideal technology for it as low size and inherently low production costs would be perfect for printers to mass produce various bits, additional details and conversion pieces for main models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
They definitely overprice on some of their models when comparing to others.

Why does a single tyrranid biovore cost as much as a 10 man of troops for example, when you can take 3 biovores in a single unit.

Why did they jack land raider prices up to $75 when they are using basically the same kit they sold for $50 8 years ago? The molds have to be paid off already, and inflation hasn't gone up 50%.


Im completely fine with the mentality of "If they pay for it, we priced it right", but arbitrary price jacks do not seem like the best way to grow your market.

I sometimes have a feeling that GW is whale hunting as it is described in the Gaming industy.
And parade exemples are new models / HQ.

Exception wierdly enough a recentish one was the adversaries from BSF, which were extremely cheap. But it is the only one in recent times beyond the bundles.

It would be sad if true. GW market is not particularly good for whaling, because their models is something which everyone wants to buy, because they are whole reason of a hobby. It is not like microtransactions in video game which are ultimately pointless in enjoying game itself. GW is a market which would benefit from as big demand as possible due to demand for new models and high initial investment per model. Paying to design model, to create model, to market model, etc.

I feel they have core units that they often discount, things like intercessors, tactical marines, terminators that are quite easy to get hold of via discounted bundles in numerous ways.

THEN they have another tier of more expensive products e.g. Invictor Tactical Warsuit, eliminators, impulsor. These aren't aimed at the new customer but at more developed customers who just want to add the cool models to their army so can justify the high price tag better. Once the sales of these new releases start to tail off they may appear in discounted boxes at a later date (like the aggressors did in the 'Tooth and Claw' box set.

I think it is a deliberate price structure move so it can be cheap (ish) to get into the hobby, but they can still charge higher prices for those who want EVERY miniature, particularly the new stuff.

I just don't think gw pricing and packaging is compelling to me as a costumer any more. An example:

For them, they could batch sprues to sell 30 ork boys in one box. This would take almost the same shelf space in stores (as most of the boxes are empty space already), would cost basicly the same to make and would lead to easier sells. Instead they choose to sell them in packs of 10 at an insane price. so if you wanna build an ork army you need 6-10 boxes. I think they have the wrong sell strategy to draw in costumers. They rely on keeping their player base small but that we invest heavily. I totally get why this could be called whaling

GW's pricing is one of the great mysteries and follows no apparent pattern. Virtually every other miniature company seems to at least follow a general rule. All infantry of X size costs Y, all vehicles that are roughly the same size cost Z. You find some variations (mostly on single models like characters since they can vary the most) but it's generally standard pricing for types.

With GW it's like this box is X, this other box with fewer models of the same size is Y, this one is inexplicably Z because it's newer than the other two so costs more just because.

I bet they spin one of those lucky carnival wheels to decide pricing on each box.

Wayniac wrote:
GW's pricing is one of the great mysteries and follows no apparent pattern. Virtually every other miniature company seems to at least follow a general rule. All infantry of X size costs Y, all vehicles that are roughly the same size cost Z. You find some variations (mostly on single models like characters since they can vary the most) but it's generally standard pricing for types.

With GW it's like this box is X, this other box with fewer models of the same size is Y, this one is inexplicably Z because it's newer than the other two so costs more just because.

GW 6th chaos god confirmed.
The minor deeity of price manipulation and randmoness.

Gitdakka wrote:
I just don't think gw pricing and packaging is compelling to me as a costumer any more. An example:

For them, they could batch sprues to sell 30 ork boys in one box. This would take almost the same shelf space in stores (as most of the boxes are empty space already), would cost basicly the same to make and would lead to easier sells. Instead they choose to sell them in packs of 10 at an insane price. so if you wanna build an ork army you need 6-10 boxes. I think they have the wrong sell strategy to draw in costumers. They rely on keeping their player base small but that we invest heavily. I totally get why this could be called whaling

Agree, I would gladly pay 50 euros for 10 Flesh Hound, but their offerings are ridiculous. 40 euros for 5 Flesh Hounds! They sell bare minimum in terms units which you need to make your own squads. Like I had said, it is far more optimal to buy those starter packs meant to introduce new players into the hobby rather than to buy more of a specific unit which you need!

you can play CSM, you don't get 10 bolters with the new set, same with melee options.

Or better yet CSM terminators, with one, 1, chainaxe, for supposed standard equipment.

alas

 Ernestas wrote:
Edit: If those Bloodcrushers from GW store would have unlimited poses I would be more inclined toward purchasing them, but I can't tell the difference between my plastic sprues and theirs. I also paid for Wrath and Rapture set exactly 88,88 euros. I get Khornish vibes out there! HELP!

You seem like a reasonable man.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Ernestas wrote:
Edit: If those Bloodcrushers from GW store would have unlimited poses I would be more inclined toward purchasing them, but I can't tell the difference between my plastic sprues and theirs. I also paid for Wrath and Rapture set exactly 88,88 euros. I get Khornish vibes out there! HELP!

You seem like a reasonable man.

un limited. as in NON monopose most likely.

Gw genuinely is plastic crack. They lure you in with a good starter box deal, emmerse you in this fantasy escapism and then slowly jack up the prices to the point you're considering spending £100 on a single grey plastic model. Even when I bought 90% of my stuff on ebay I still felt guilty at myself for spending so much, it went beyond what a hobby really should be about. I always wanted to be as cool as the people in the shop who pressured me to buy the latest crap. Even when I was happy with my 2k points, GW decreased the points every year and changed unit strengths meaning I had to keep up if I wanted to continue playing in the community I felt a part of. If i left that community I felt like I'd lose all my friends.

Obviously, some people suffer from addiction more than others but you get the point. In the end I substituted 40k for other cheaper games that have me spending reasonable amounts on my hobby and don't give me crushing guilt. I did lose some friends but then I found others who played these other game (and playing these games really highlighted the problems I had with 40k). I still have lovely armies sitting on my shelf, I enjoyed the hobby aspect and they look cool but I've managed to get away from 40k spending.

Wayniac wrote:
this one is inexplicably Z because it's newer than the other two so costs more just because.

There used to be time when that wasn't true. Of course that's when GW rised prices across the line each year. These days GW rather increases prices of new releases.

Same issue btw seen in warmachine where warjack A was cheaper than warjack B despite same size because B was newer. Was point of principle for pp they don't increase old prices.

To what extent do the expensive steel moulds that GW use for their plastics affect their likely pricing thought process?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why did they jack land raider prices up to $75 when they are using basically the same kit they sold for $50 8 years ago? The molds have to be paid off already, and inflation hasn't gone up 50%.

Im completely fine with the mentality of "If they pay for it, we priced it right", but arbitrary price jacks do not seem like the best way to grow your market.

The problem GW has, their factory is basically maxed out, they are literally selling as fast as they can produce, and in some cases not even that (see how half of IG range was out of stock for months after the codex dropped). In this situation, the only way to grow profits is to raise the prices, which also dampens demand a bit and makes the job of the factory guys easier.

They are completing new factory now, so with extra production powers they could afford to lower prices a bit and instead rely on volume sales. Will they do that? Dunno, modern, insane robber capitalism demands infinite profit growth for shareholders (impossible as it is) and in many cases it's literally illegal for the decision makers to do sensible stuff that will grow profits in long term but might mean less money short term. We'll see what GW does, they shown they are willing to lower prices in some ways (boxed sets and start collecting were just that in disguise) but that was response to a crisis so the shareholders might be less willing to allow that a second time...

Pretty soon GW, or at least forge world will be forced to offer pay monthly price plans for their models. You can always look east though.

 Irbis wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why did they jack land raider prices up to $75 when they are using basically the same kit they sold for $50 8 years ago? The molds have to be paid off already, and inflation hasn't gone up 50%.

Im completely fine with the mentality of "If they pay for it, we priced it right", but arbitrary price jacks do not seem like the best way to grow your market.

The problem GW has, their factory is basically maxed out, they are literally selling as fast as they can produce, and in some cases not even that (see how half of IG range was out of stock for months after the codex dropped). In this situation, the only way to grow profits is to raise the prices, which also dampens demand a bit and makes the job of the factory guys easier.

They are completing new factory now, so with extra production powers they could afford to lower prices a bit and instead rely on volume sales. Will they do that? Dunno, modern, insane robber capitalism demands infinite profit growth for shareholders (impossible as it is) and in many cases it's literally illegal for the decision makers to do sensible stuff that will grow profits in long term but might mean less money short term. We'll see what GW does, they shown they are willing to lower prices in some ways (boxed sets and start collecting were just that in disguise) but that was response to a crisis so the shareholders might be less willing to allow that a second time...

No price drops. That factory is a huge liability in economic downturn. A recession is coming for the US. Brexit is going to happen. GW will need cash on hand.

I was thinking the other day, about a time when I was into warhammer as a kid. I remember one day, the store in my town had a big clear out. mustve dug out all the crap at the back of the shelves in the stockroom. they chucked it all in a bargain bin and sold it for pennies. it was great. as a 10 year old kid, i could spend my meagre £5 pocket money on some ancient white metal fantasy squire model and a some old copies of white dwarf. You'd never get that nowadays. I thought that they might put some of the old fantasy stuff on reduced prices when AoS came in, but no. its strange, but then retail in general seems more like that these days.

 harlokin wrote:
To what extent do the expensive steel moulds that GW use for their plastics affect their likely pricing thought process?

Pretty majorly, I'd have thought. That was always touted as the reason for single characters being comparatively expensive - GW generally expect to sell less of them but the mould costs about the same to make, and they have to recoup that cost.

I do wonder if they couldn't economise by putting multiple character models that were designed at the same time on the same mould and separating them for packaging - e.g. for Drukhari you could, for instance, have a single mould that produces 1 x Archon, 1 x Succubus and 1 x Haemonculus. I'd expect them to all sell at roughly similar levels, and I imagine it'd be cheaper to have a few extra of the less popular model(s) in stock than it would be to make an extra mould so they could be manufactured separately.

Maybe they already do this?

Not Online!!! wrote:
They have a wierd tendency to also let the pricinb be influenced on the points a unit costs sometimes, also HQ's are a must for all armies therefore, GW is milking where GW can.

hhahahahaahaha, only sometimes. Or Else we'd be getting boxes of Ork Boys, Grots and stuff for pennies. I always find the points to pounds ratio to be batfrak insane.
Imagine 2 new people want to get into the hobby, and one wants to play Custodes, because they like big burly gold buggers, and the other likes horribly proportioned army men because they look a bit like Rambo so goes with Guard. The second person is immediately looking at double, triple or more the price of the first for a similarly points costed army.

FWIW I've found myself rarely going outside of the big bundles GW does these days. I'm far more likely to buy a Start Collecting or 2 faction box (especially something like Wrath and Rapture or Pricegouge Of The Phoenix where the 2 armies can work together) and get a dozen, or maybe a few dozen models vs a single box of maybe 5 models for a tenner less. As I find myself building up a solid core of some armies I'm definitely getting to the point where the more expensive single kits are going to be more appealing just for the variety but with customisation and kitbashing there's definitely less incentive to go for expensive single kits just to fill out an army. I bought that big box of Death Company for my BA when it was still around, even though I didn't intend to run 20 of them, and the Death Watch starter was bought just for more options in a Kill Team rather than as an actual intent to start another full faction.

ork mek gunz assuming you want a smasha gun is 31 points for $50 so you are literally looking at $1.61 per point

assming you wanted a 2k points list of all smasha guns you would pay $3,220 for the privilage.

this is why orks kit bash btw. one ork trukk box and a mek gun box cna make 4 mek guns and nobody knows what ork gunz are anyway so you just sall them all the same gun

I had done 2 sets of the new flesh hounds about a month and half ago for commissions; there are no gaps, if anything it’s hid by the way the parts come together. My bet is that you didn’t follow instructions or didn’t clean the mold clippings, most likely glued the head together before attaching to the body, where you’re suppose to attach one half around the tongue, then the other half.

I think the pricing on Start Collecting and army boxes is a clear example of anchoring. Putting an individual box at $60 sets the perceived value of that kit at $60, and then a $90 SC that includes that kit plus a bunch of other stuff seems like a bargain- even when it's still terribly expensive compared to non-GW miniatures.

Also, now that GW has moved to plastics for everything, kits that are expected to sell in fewer quantities (eg characters) are priced higher so as to more quickly recoup their mold cost. This is why you see $30 characters coming on itty bitty sprues. GW also has some products that are most definitely loss leaders, while others make up for it.

The most important thing to remember is that the actual production cost of a plastic kit- just injection molded plastic and printed paper and cardboard- is negligible, as is transportation and storage. GW's costs are almost purely operational, like wages for their employees and rent for their facilities, which are minimally impacted by volume sale. The primary cost for each new kit introduced is design time plus an up-front cost of ~$50-100k for each injection mold sprue, which then is amortized over time through sales.

From a marketing perspective, this makes GW more similar to a music, film, or videogame company, where the physical product (a CD/DVD in a box) is dirt-cheap to manufacture, and the price is determined more by expected volume of sale at an arbitrary price point. If you analyze their business from this perspective it makes a lot more sense- not to suggest that everyone should be happy with GW's prices, but there is method to the madness.