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Okay, just looked at the new points (haven't run my eldar in a while) and noticed the wraithblades ghostswords and Axe/shield combo are now the same price.
My first reaction is WHAT!?!?! I am not commenting on the overall points for unit etc, but the fact that they have the same cost now. Am I crazy? A 4++, +2 strength and d3 vs 1 damage seems to far outweigh one extra attack even with the -1 to hit. I do not claim expertise however, and perhaps I value that invuln save WAY too much, but with the rampant AP in this game...same with the damage. So many multi-wound things nowadays..
Anyway, I wouldn't mind hearing thoughts and ideas on this. Could probably use some fresh arguments etc on this choice.

(I looked for a topic on this, but the search always fails me...)

edwardmyst wrote:
Okay, just looked at the new points (haven't run my eldar in a while) and noticed the wraithblades ghostswords and Axe/shield combo are now the same price.
My first reaction is WHAT!?!?! I am not commenting on the overall points for unit etc, but the fact that they have the same cost now. Am I crazy? A 4++, +2 strength and d3 vs 1 damage seems to far outweigh one extra attack even with the -1 to hit. I do not claim expertise however, and perhaps I value that invuln save WAY too much, but with the rampant AP in this game...same with the damage. So many multi-wound things nowadays..
Anyway, I wouldn't mind hearing thoughts and ideas on this. Could probably use some fresh arguments etc on this choice.

(I looked for a topic on this, but the search always fails me...)

Swords do 2x damage vs GEQ, 1,2x damage vs Primaris, 0,67 damage vs Rhino, 1x damage vs Knight assuming the unit doesn't charge. So against Infantry, even with multiple wounds the swords are better, but against multi-wound models they are about as good but swords fall behind in terms of damage against T 6-7 vehicles/monsters. Now if they do charge you get 1,6x vs GEQ, 0,96x vs Primaris, 0,54x vs Rhino, 0,8x vs Knight.

I don't know how GW has gotten it into their heads that invuls are worth as little as what they are pricing them at for some factions, Necrons still pay 6 pts for a 4++ (which is a little on the high side, but probably not 4 pts overcosted IMO) , while Eldar now pay 2 for 4++ and SM still have their insane 2 pt 3++. I've only played little with Craftworlds and never using Wraithblades, from the times I've faced them I always try to shoot them down and that's relatively easy, I think the axe is a way better choice.

The swords are OK, but probably should have come down to 165 for 5. To run the swords I think you really need to maximize the # of swings, so Vigilus detachment with +1 Attack strat.

Thanks for some insight.
@Vict0988. Do you mind checking my math.
You gave the stats for the swords per model, right? So that say 1.2 damage to primaris is One wraithblade swinging? I'm getting a different number. My math: its 3(attacks) x 2/3 (hits) x 2/3(wounds) x5/6(failed saves) x1(damage) I keep getting 1.108 damage per wraithblade. What have I missed? The axe gives me: 2x.5x.666x.833x2=1.109, or basically the same?
Or wait, was that a damage multiplier, as in swords do 1.2x the damage axes do against primaris? Either way I've got something wrong here?

.Does the math change much when you add in re-roll to hit from spiritseer (for example) or reroll wounds from Doom? hmmm actually, I think it just increases each the same against Primaris, since for doom the wound roll is identical, and they miss the same % of hits (but the reroll gives a corrosponding better hit % for the swords)
So, there is such a thing as overkill. On the charge, do the swords wipe a 5 man primaris unit out? The axes?

Really just curious and I think your mathhammer is a bit more reliable than mine. I still see the 4++ pretty much trumping the damage bonus.

Good idea to not rely blindly on other peoples math. I didn't do the damage per model, I only compared relative damage output between a single model with swords vs a single model with an axe, my math on that might be wrong, but swords should do about 20% more damage to Primaris. I think the disparity between our results with regards to Primaris might come from you simplifying D3 damage to 2 damage, that's ignoring the chance of rolling a 1. I can't find an engine that will actually do the math and not just give me the chance of killing a Primaris Marine so I cannot verify. The MathHammer site makes the same mistake as you did OP of conflating D3 and 2 damage.

Ah ok, that makes sense. Using the "average" roll of 2 gives a result that does not take into account all possibilities. So, getting all three results for axe, adding and dividing by 3 work? Or that just goes back to average. oh well, whatever, still appreciate your thought process.

Rolling 1 damage with a D3 vs a 2 wound unit not only won't kill the 1st guy (1.666 average) but the following wound will guaranteed only do one damage. That brings your average damage vs 2 wound models to something around 1.5 or so.

Still the durability added by the shield is completely worth the shift of damage output.

Good point, Goobi. It gets complex figuring a d3 vs 2 wounds, because the 3 doesn't help, and the 1 is equivalent to 2 rolls of one in a row. Well, that math is way beyond me.
So...still on the shield outweighs everything bandwagon. Again appreciate more input. It's so easy to fall into the "my thoughts are logical, so must be right" trap.

Personally I highly value not taking a hit penalty, especially if you have less attacks to try with in the first place.

If it worked more like a power fist fine, but axes are only 7 vs 6 strength, not exactly an important break point.

But still, given that whilst I’ve not played 40k at all in months the army I was painting up and playing last was iyanden wraith host I’m heartened to hear the invulnerable variant got a cut. I’ll have to look into if anything else changed.

One nice thing about the swords is using the enhance psychic power and the extra attack strat on 6+, which goes off on a 5+ with the power, they really are good with that combo.