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Help a beginner out, recently got the pelennor set for the models but found that i really enjoy the ruleset! So im planning a small list for mordor and rohan to find out what purchases to do before i get started painting.

Riders of rohan all come equipped with both bow and shield. But models with bows cant benefit from shields. So what is the point?

I know im missing something :/

Great choice with LOTR, it is a wonderful ruleset. I believe the riders of Rohan benefit from the extra defence from the shield (I can't remember if it's covered in the expert rider rule).

Mr_Gimli wrote:
Great choice with LOTR, it is a wonderful ruleset. I believe the riders of Rohan benefit from the extra defence from the shield (I can't remember if it's covered in the expert rider rule).

Ah ty friend, i checked it out and you are correct about expert rider!

Edit:
I find it weird though, if a rider gets dismounted they can no longer benefit from the shield but can still shoot the bow.
Feels like it should be the opposite way around :/

One thing to note is that because of the 1/3 bow limit(IE: only 1/3 of your models may be armed with bows), you can elect models that automatically come with bows to act as if they don't have them. IE: 2/3 of your Riders of Rohan can effectively delete the bow from their profile and no longer have it interfere with their shield. I believe you do have to state which models are which at the beginning of the game though, so the easiest way is to have all the ones who are modeled actually shooting their bow to be the ones who still have it.

Of course, once dudes start dying you'll probably have a few horses who have lost their original rider who your dismounted guys can jump back on if they want.

 Grey Templar wrote:
One thing to note is that because of the 1/3 bow limit(IE: only 1/3 of your models may be armed with bows), you can elect models that automatically come with bows to act as if they don't have them. IE: 2/3 of your Riders of Rohan can effectively delete the bow from their profile and no longer have it interfere with their shield. I believe you do have to state which models are which at the beginning of the game though, so the easiest way is to have all the ones who are modeled actually shooting their bow to be the ones who still have it.

Of course, once dudes start dying you'll probably have a few horses who have lost their original rider who your dismounted guys can jump back on if they want.

Ah okay but Riders of Rohan dont count against bow limit unless im mistaken?
I also think the rules state that a rider who is dismounted can never remount again even if the mount stays on the battlefield. But horses sre immediately removed when seperated from their riders so it wouldnt matter :/

Im new to the game and rules though so can have that misukderstood as well.

But it just felt strange that they can benefit from bow/shield when mounted but when dismounted they can keep on shooting the bow but not use the shield?
Main reason they would be dismounted is in combat, where a shield is far better to grab than a bow!

Mostly i think the rules are flowing really nice but there are some weird oddities in the crunch of it that i havent understood thw why or hows of yet

My group always played with the optional rules where mounts could make a courage check to stay on the field. Removing them is only a method to speed up the game. The full rules encourage you to keep them around. Plus with certain mounts it makes no sense for them to just run off. Shadowfax and some wargs ain’t running off of their rider dismounts.

For bow limit, riders do count against it. They’re just allowed to go over it. But any riders above it can’t use their bows.

Grey Templar wrote:One thing to note is that because of the 1/3 bow limit(IE: only 1/3 of your models may be armed with bows), you can elect models that automatically come with bows to act as if they don't have them.

That was the case back in Legions of Middle-earth, but I don't think that's how the rules have worked for a long time. A model with a bow has a bow, period. As some figures are all armed with bows (Riders of Rohan, Rivendell Knights, Rangers of Gondor, Mirkwood Rangers), they have now made sure to create faction rules or character bonuses that allow those troops to all be bow-armed (sometimes under particular circumstances).
All Riders of Rohan have bows. All Riders of Rohan can use their bows, regardless of the other troops in the armylist: they are ignored for the calculation of the bow limit entirely.

As for the use of shields and bows, the shield is not entirely useless once dismounted: you may no longer benefit from the +1 Defence, but you are still able to use the Shielding special rule. Very handy under the right circumstances!

 Grey Templar wrote:
My group always played with the optional rules where mounts could make a courage check to stay on the field. Removing them is only a method to speed up the game. The full rules encourage you to keep them around. Plus with certain mounts it makes no sense for them to just run off. Shadowfax and some wargs ain’t running off of their rider dismounts.

For bow limit, riders do count against it. They’re just allowed to go over it. But any riders above it can’t use their bows.

From what ive gathered from the rules, the standard rules is that a mount must make a courage test when separated, but mounts who lacks an attack value are removed in any case. Since the rules dont allow a dismounted rider to ever remount there is no use for a separate mount that cannot attack.
Wargs, for instance, does have an attack value and so might stay and keep on fighting.

House rules can allow it of course


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

As for the use of shields and bows, the shield is not entirely useless once dismounted: you may no longer benefit from the +1 Defence, but you are still able to use the Shielding special rule. Very handy under the right circumstances!

So does this mean if a rider of rohan gets dismounted i must subtract 1 from thei defense from then on? Since they have shields by defailt i assume it is included in their profile already?

Soulless wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

As for the use of shields and bows, the shield is not entirely useless once dismounted: you may no longer benefit from the +1 Defence, but you are still able to use the Shielding special rule. Very handy under the right circumstances!

So does this mean if a rider of rohan gets dismounted i must subtract 1 from thei defense from then on? Since they have shields by defailt i assume it is included in their profile already?

Indeed; they'll be D4 if dismounted, 5 for as long as they are on horseback.

 Grey Templar wrote:
My group always played with the optional rules where mounts could make a courage check to stay on the field. Removing them is only a method to speed up the game. The full rules encourage you to keep them around. Plus with certain mounts it makes no sense for them to just run off. Shadowfax and some wargs ain’t running off of their rider dismounts.

Those aren't optional rules, they are the rules. A mount is automatically removed if it is riderless and either a) has no attacks characteristic (horses) or b) does but fails a Courage check (a cowardly warg).

It is a viable strategy to have warg riders voluntarily dismount in order to increase model density (often times to take objectives)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
One thing to note is that because of the 1/3 bow limit(IE: only 1/3 of your models may be armed with bows), you can elect models that automatically come with bows to act as if they don't have them. IE: 2/3 of your Riders of Rohan can effectively delete the bow from their profile and no longer have it interfere with their shield. I believe you do have to state which models are which at the beginning of the game though, so the easiest way is to have all the ones who are modeled actually shooting their bow to be the ones who still have it.

Of course, once dudes start dying you'll probably have a few horses who have lost their original rider who your dismounted guys can jump back on if they want.

uhhh... Riders of Rohan are exempt from the bow limit.

And above, dismounted horses are automatically removed.