Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/01/20 04:52:53
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
Planning to run this list as Catachan. Goal here is to have a flexible list for learning in my first games. Looking for feedback on if I've built/calculated things correctly, and if I've missed anything obvious. For example, would I be better off changing Troops 4 to a Command squad, say with sniper rifles and mortar?:
Battalion Detachment
994 Total Points
Headquarters 1
142 Tank Commander
22 Battle Cannon
15 Las Cannon (replace Heavy Bolter)
10 Plasma Sponson
10 Plasma Sponson
2 heavy stubber
Unit Total 201
Headquarters 2
142 Tank Commander
22 Battle Cannon
15 Las Cannon (replace Heavy Bolter)
10 Plasma Sponson
10 Plasma Sponson
2 heavy stubber
Unit Total 201
Headquarters 3
30 Company Commander
1 Bolt Pistol
4 Power Sword
Unit Total 35
Troops 1
40 Infantry Squad
1 Sergent - Boltgun
3 Guardsman - Grenade Launcher
10 HWT - Missile Launcher
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
Unit Total 54
60 Chimera
8 heavy bolter
8 heavy bolter turret (Replace Multi-Laser)
2 heavy stubber
Unit Total 78
Troops 2
40 Infantry Squad
1 Sergent - Boltgun
3 Guardsman - Grenade Launcher
10 HWT - Missile Launcher
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
Unit Total 54
60 Chimera
8 heavy bolter
8 heavy bolter turret (Replace Multi-Laser)
2 heavy stubber
Unit Total 78
Troops 3
40 Infantry Squad
1 Sergent - Boltgun
3 Guardsman - Grenade Launcher
10 HWT - Missile Launcher
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
Unit Total 54
60 Chimera
8 heavy bolter
8 heavy bolter turret (Replace Multi-Laser)
2 heavy stubber
Unit Total 78
Troops 4
40 Infantry Squad
1 Sergent - Boltgun
3 Guardsman - Grenade Launcher
9 HWT - Mortar
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
0 Guardsman - Lasgun
Unit Total 53
60 Chimera
8 heavy bolter
8 heavy bolter turret (Replace Multi-Laser)
2 heavy stubber
Unit Total 78
Elites 1
30 Tech Priest Enginseer
0 Omnissian Axe
0 Las pistol
0 Servo Arm
Unit Total 30
2020/01/20 07:29:48
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
Thanks,
So far I've got 1 of the infantry squads built out, and 3 of each heavy weapon team. I plan to build out to be able to run a flamer or plasma on each special weapon guy in the squad, hellhounds are on the way for when I put a brigade together, sentinel boxes are on the shelf, two LR and two demolshers, tempestus starter box, valkyrie, etc.
I have means and I'm in the guard for the long haul, so more models is all good and suggestions would be great. I wouldn't mind having multiple 1000 point options out of this thread.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm also likely to explore Armaggeddon doctrine over the next year if that adds any thoughts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/20 17:29:30
2020/01/21 21:55:34
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
It's a solid start to an Armageddon Steel Legion army. There's not much to change really. The unit composition is spot on, but there are a few minor things I would consider:
1. I swear by Heavy Flamers on my Steel Legion Chimeras. You're running mechanized infantry, so should make use of your mobility. Once you move with those Heavy Bolters, you're -1 to hit. Six S5 shots that hit on 5s isn't going to do much. 2d6 S5 automatic hits is much more reliable and flexible. For the same reason, I would run Storm Bolters not Stubbers. Being assault weapons, it means you can move and fire Storm Bolters at full BS.
2. Being Steel Legion, I understand you're probably limited by models, but Missile Launchers are not the greatest addition to an infantry squad. Again, it comes down to whenever you move, you're -1 to hit. That really stings on a ten point upgrade. You're better off not running heavy weapons at all in the infantry squads and putting those Missile Launchers in a heavy weapons squad instead that can deploy in a good spot and fire away at full BS all game. Similarly, you'll get more mileage out of Plasma Guns than Grenade Launchers. Plasma Guns synergize really well with the Steel Legion Regimental Doctrine.
Other than that, I think you're approach is spot on.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/01/21 22:09:13
The Devil Hides in You
2020/01/22 01:34:39
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
counterwavecounter wrote: It's a solid start to an Armageddon Steel Legion army. There's not much to change really. The unit composition is spot on, but there are a few minor things I would consider:
1. I swear by Heavy Flamers on my Steel Legion Chimeras. You're running mechanized infantry, so should make use of your mobility. Once you move with those Heavy Bolters, you're -1 to hit. Six S5 shots that hit on 5s isn't going to do much. 2d6 S5 automatic hits is much more reliable and flexible. For the same reason, I would run Storm Bolters not Stubbers. Being assault weapons, it means you can move and fire Storm Bolters at full BS.
2. Being Steel Legion, I understand you're probably limited by models, but Missile Launchers are not the greatest addition to an infantry squad. Again, it comes down to whenever you move, you're -1 to hit. That really stings on a ten point upgrade. You're better off not running heavy weapons at all in the infantry squads and putting those Missile Launchers in a heavy weapons squad instead that can deploy in a good spot and fire away at full BS all game. Similarly, you'll get more mileage out of Plasma Guns than Grenade Launchers. Plasma Guns synergize really well with the Steel Legion Regimental Doctrine.
Other than that, I think you're approach is spot on.
Thanks for the feedback. Good point about the flamers, I think I'll try it both ways over the course of a few games. I can't disagree with your points on the grenade launchers and missile launchers. My thinking is I'll try those first just to get a baseline (the idea being that they would be the most flexible), but then I agree I'd plan to rotate through plasma and flamer special (based on whether I'm trying Catachan or Armageddon), and I might experiment with autocannon as the HWT before deciding on going HWS instead. The tactic I want to try is using the Chimeras to get the guys to an objective, then drop the guys off and push forward with the chimera to keep the momentum in the adversary's face, while the guys try to keep the objective, at which point the HWT is back in effect. Autocannon is cheaper I believe so it might hurt less to take that. The one thing I worry about is being short on orders, and I'm starting to turn the wheels on what I might swap or tweak to get another commander in.
I don't care for it to be perfect on the first go, and I expect to be mercilessly slaughtered for quite a while, the thing I want to know is what the baseline rate of slaughter taken vs. slaughter delt is, and tweak to optimize from there.
If anyone has a good recommendation for a straight Catachan 1000 I'd appreciate any feedback on that as well.
2020/01/22 18:31:25
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
My $0.02 would be to drop the plasma from your TCs, and use those points for more boys.
The Guard constantly give you the choice of Boys vs Toys (ie unit upgrades). Generally you want to have multiple of everything (which you have done), and enough bodies that it will scare an opponent.
I don't run Mech Guard, so can't give you much advice there. However, it is one of the weaker Guard builds (opponent/META dependent). Should be fun to learn with though
2020/01/22 19:12:46
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
RegularGuy wrote: The one thing I worry about is being short on orders, and I'm starting to turn the wheels on what I might swap or tweak to get another commander in.
You'll be fine on orders. Your Company Commander can issue two and if you want a third one you can use the Inspired Tactics stratagem. If you really want that fourth, you can take the Master of Command warlord trait. However, what you'll discover playing mech Guard is that rarely will all of your infantry squads be on the table at the same time, so you don't need to worry about ordering all of them in one turn.
The Devil Hides in You
2020/01/23 02:00:50
Subject: [1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
Fisheyes wrote: My $0.02 would be to drop the plasma from your TCs, and use those points for more boys.
The Guard constantly give you the choice of Boys vs Toys (ie unit upgrades). Generally you want to have multiple of everything (which you have done), and enough bodies that it will scare an opponent.
I don't run Mech Guard, so can't give you much advice there. However, it is one of the weaker Guard builds (opponent/META dependent). Should be fun to learn with though
I aim to get to large infantry eventually but it's going to take a long time to acquire and paint all the dudes at this rate. (will put a thread out on that project soon). With this list I'll probably experiment a bit with that 4th team's chimera and see what else we could fit in and play without without it, and tweak some of the other weapon picks.
You'll be fine on orders. Your Company Commander can issue two and if you want a third one you can use the Inspired Tactics stratagem. If you really want that fourth, you can take the Master of Command warlord trait. However, what you'll discover playing mech Guard is that rarely will all of your infantry squads be on the table at the same time, so you don't need to worry about ordering all of them in one turn.
Thanks for that. On the subject of mech guard, I foresee pushing forward with the chimeras, jumping guys out on objectives or to screen something coming in at the tanks, with the tanks hanging back or moving forward (as appropriate) to hit the big bad stuff. I'm interested in any thoughts, references, videos, etc that give more insights into effective mech inf if you have any suggestions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/23 02:03:04
2020/01/23 07:48:04
Subject: Re:[1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
You could also go tallarn and run a party bus convoy ...
Spoiler:
tallarn battalion
3 10 man ig regular gaurd infantry, with grenade launcher and missle launcher
2 company commanders, tallarn
1 platoon commander, tallarn
3 command squads with 2 grenade launcher and 1 missle launcher each
2 astropath )-1 to be hit, and +1 to saves respectively(
3 heavy weapon squads with 3 missle launcher each
a 512 point tallarn force! Then...
Stormlord with a pair of lascannon/twinheavybolter sponsoons (and of course, the twin heavy bolter up front, the main gun, and 3 heavy stubber) 486
That puts you at 998 so far, but the party bus can accomodate everything except the infantry. This is still a mechanized force for ~1000 points.
At 2000? Now you ask, whatever will I stick my extra 20 troops in?
Why, the doomhammer (366 points with a pintle heavy stubber) and the other doomhammer (366 points with a pintle heavy stubber)
A heck, put a sponsoon pair on each of these too, for another 116 points.
The surprising cheapness of gaurd baneblade variants means that you can run this little mech surprise force for 1846 points, and few armies really expect anyone to EVER bring such a mix. Its going to be a lot of fun in casual play but would of course struggle in competitive. However...
98 trojan support vehicle with heavy bolter
56 inquisitor with chainsword and bolter pistol (-1 cp to give him an extra psyker attack and defense and spell)
Its not a horrible list, I think, and has the surprising ability to roll treads every round while firing all its special and heavy weapons without penalty. Lackluster shooting perhaps, but quantity is a quality all its own. Similarly, the 3 baneblade variants between them pack a lot of wounds into their t8 frames and 3+ saves, and rather surprisingly ARE a melee threat in gaurd armor form. The inquisitor can hop out of one or another tank to prevent overwatch when the baneblades try to flatten something in melee combat, and the pre-melee softeneing up promises to be an enjoyable frenzy of rolling dice. The officers themselves become cheap objective holders if you don't want to disembark many soldiers, and the regular gaurd 30 can do the same (or, they can mostly fire lasguns out of doomhammer open tops, singing about a one horse open sleigh, and laughing all the way, as their tiny little t3 weapon shots randomly chew up the dirt very near enemy models).
Yes, I know, you are thinking "why bring 3 gaurd squads for 159 when I could bring 3 special weapons squads for 72 and arm them with 9 MORE grenade launchers for 27, saving me enough to add in a pair of engenseers to repair these beautiful mechs... and I have no answer other than to say that also sounds like fun.
This may not be the most competitive mechanized infantry ever, but it sure gets aroudn the chimera problem gaurd has of "my transports can't really threaten tanks"...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/23 07:57:31
Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.
2020/01/23 12:56:27
Subject: Re:[1000] - Astra Militarum - First List for Casual Games / Experience
That sounds like fun whether it's competitive or not. What I like about the guard is it's flexibility. It's units are like a pallet to paint from, and I expect the variety that offers to keep me and people I play with entertained. I think your list would be a fun thing to roll out after people have gotten used to blobs of infantry or other approaches.
