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Something I have not got around to talking about here yet-
With the release of titanicus from 40K my old epic 40K nerves started a tingling
As it turns out 8th ed being so simplified works super good at epic scale-playing straight 8th edition while halving ranges and movement....suddenly basalisks can use their full range, transports become super important. bringing the big shiny models including FW( in 6mm) in numbers befitting the scale of the 40K universe is a thing of beauty and the cost savings..... one player just dropped $120 for a 10K thousands sons force (28mm translation close to $4k) great thing that there are a bunch of fans of epic scale still supporting the minis-
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/28 12:11:01
GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear/MCP
I don't like it when people paint their models with WWII air force signs. Am not even sure if that is legal to post on this forum.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
The French have a ruleset as well and the Yanks have done one.
Because I don't like the epic rules as much as playing straight 8th edition in 6mm scale.
I don't like it when people paint their models with WWII air force signs. Am not even sure if that is legal to post on this forum.
You do realize we have an entire forum section dedicated to historic wargaming from WWI to modern right?
saw a beautiful IG army back in 3rd that was entirely Russian WWII themed, nothing wrong with that. also the order of the teutonic knights pre-existed WWII by quite a bit just like many of the other symbols used by imperial forces in the 40K universe. knights hospitaller=black Templar, the fleur de lis =sisters of battle, heraldric fisted gauntlets like those used by the imperial fists have been used for centuries and so on.
Life is much more enjoyable if you are not looking for the worst interpretations in everything you see
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/28 13:23:18
GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear/MCP
Karol wrote: I don't like it when people paint their models with WWII air force signs. Am not even sure if that is legal to post on this forum.
Removed - Rule #1 please Heck they sell WWII planes with symbols at walmart all over the world.
Well it can be difficult country by country. Germany for instance and laws around the swastika.
The law regarding those symbols isn't a problem, when it comes to art or history...
I'd consider historical tabletop systems as both and sci-fi systems at least as art (doesn't mean, that I want to have these symbols anywhere near me or my models, but technical speaking it shouldn't be a legal problem).
Karol wrote: I don't like it when people paint their models with WWII air force signs. Am not even sure if that is legal to post on this forum.
Removed - Rule #1 please Heck they sell WWII planes with symbols at walmart all over the world.
Well it can be difficult country by country. Germany for instance and laws around the swastika.
Well thats not the law tho, the law is no unconstitutional symbols outside of History, art, science, research, and teaching, and its not just swastika its all symbols they see fit (I have a friend i play with now that is german, this is what he told me the law is, i just asked to double check too) Wargaming can be history, but its also art, my friend he played historical wargames and had symbols on everything. Not saying he "Couldn't" have gotten in trouble, just saying it was still a thing this group was doing. B.c i do not live there and this is all second hand, it could also depend on the neighboring officers and if they wanted to be an ass or not, etc..
But the points stands, and i didnt see any swastika's in this post anyways.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Back onto topic, i like APOC in 8th too!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/28 14:49:36
Because I don't like the epic rules as much as playing straight 8th edition in 6mm scale.
Well fair enough
I guess I am coloured by how new players in clubs I go to take to the rules. In general if they come from historical wargames they prefer Epic style stuff. The emphasis is on table level manoeuvre and decision making. Guys coming from say a magic the gathering background often like 40k with its emphasis on list building, stratagems and other factors that influence the battle alongside moving and shooting.
Got to say as I’ve got older I far prefer the systems from, say, king of the battlefield or a Fistful of TOWs (the former is amazing in its simplicity – two A5 sides encapsulate the majority of the rules which allow you to fight 7 years war battles using realistic tactics and getting a result in a couple of hours of play, the latter is more of a war simulation and is the best there is for 6mm, but at the other end of the scale when it comes to complexity).
Because I don't like the epic rules as much as playing straight 8th edition in 6mm scale.
Well fair enough
I guess I am coloured by how new players in clubs I go to take to the rules. In general if they come from historical wargames they prefer Epic style stuff. The emphasis is on table level manoeuvre and decision making. Guys coming from say a magic the gathering background often like 40k with its emphasis on list building, stratagems and other factors that influence the battle alongside moving and shooting.
Got to say as I’ve got older I far prefer the systems from, say, king of the battlefield or a Fistful of TOWs (the former is amazing in its simplicity – two A5 sides encapsulate the majority of the rules which allow you to fight 7 years war battles using realistic tactics and getting a result in a couple of hours of play, the latter is more of a war simulation and is the best there is for 6mm, but at the other end of the scale when it comes to complexity).
I come from historical wargaming, and I object to your characterizations of 40k, epic, magic, and the factors relevant to them that various people engage with.
I do prefer games with more smaller models to fewer bigger ones, particularly those where the base unit is a tank platoon [my other miniatures games are Flames of War & DZC]. OTOH, the models have to be big enough to be fun to build and paint, at this point I think 1:100 Flames of War is about the smallest I want to go. DZC is just too small and kind of lacks in detail. I can't see myself ever getting into epic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/28 16:07:51
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
The_Real_Chris wrote: I guess I am coloured by how new players in clubs I go to take to the rules.
I come from historical wargaming, and I object to your characterizations of 40k, epic, magic, and the factors relevant to them that various people engage with.
I do prefer games with more smaller models to fewer bigger ones, particularly those where the base unit is a tank platoon [my other miniatures games are Flames of War & DZC]. OTOH, the models have to be big enough to be fun to build and paint, at this point I think 1:100 Flames of War is about the smallest I want to go. DZC is just too small and kind of lacks in detail. I can't see myself ever getting into epic.
Can I object to your objection to the description of people in two wargame clubs in Central London that I doubt you have met?
I did qualify my post to make clear it was anecdotal and relating to my experience. I didn’t release I characterised MTG or historical wargaming, just mentioned them as two common starting points for the wargamers playing GW games that I meet.
If I wanted to characterise 40k I would say it is a system that is complicated rules wise for a rather simplistic game. There are lots of rules and sources of rules for what is a very straightforward combat system. Go or Chess is an example of a simple rules system with zero pre game preparation (no writing army lists and working out damage per point in an expected range of scenarios) but comparably complex gameplay (from that very simple rules set).
That isn’t to say I don’t like 40k. Well actually after playing a 2000 point game last night I was reminded how I didn’t like big games. But small games, especially linked 500 point games with a good narrative, are good fun and ironically a bit similar to games we used to play way back when in rogue trader days.
So you up points and drop model size. Still doesn't give sense of big battles. Just big skirmish mess. Without changing rules skirmish is still skirmish.
Top of that 40k scales very badly. Necrons become joke at higher point levels for starters. Sisters lose power etc
If you don't want to use one of the many epic rulesets out there, why not use apocalypse rules? It's far better suited to epic Games than normal 8th ed.
The_Real_Chris wrote: I guess I am coloured by how new players in clubs I go to take to the rules.
I come from historical wargaming, and I object to your characterizations of 40k, epic, magic, and the factors relevant to them that various people engage with.
I do prefer games with more smaller models to fewer bigger ones, particularly those where the base unit is a tank platoon [my other miniatures games are Flames of War & DZC]. OTOH, the models have to be big enough to be fun to build and paint, at this point I think 1:100 Flames of War is about the smallest I want to go. DZC is just too small and kind of lacks in detail. I can't see myself ever getting into epic.
Can I object to your objection to the description of people in two wargame clubs in Central London that I doubt you have met?
I did qualify my post to make clear it was anecdotal and relating to my experience. I didn’t release I characterised MTG or historical wargaming, just mentioned them as two common starting points for the wargamers playing GW games that I meet.
If I wanted to characterise 40k I would say it is a system that is complicated rules wise for a rather simplistic game. There are lots of rules and sources of rules for what is a very straightforward combat system. Go or Chess is an example of a simple rules system with zero pre game preparation (no writing army lists and working out damage per point in an expected range of scenarios) but comparably complex gameplay (from that very simple rules set).
That isn’t to say I don’t like 40k. Well actually after playing a 2000 point game last night I was reminded how I didn’t like big games. But small games, especially linked 500 point games with a good narrative, are good fun and ironically a bit similar to games we used to play way back when in rogue trader days.
You may object to my objection to your characterization of 40k versus epic.
I think pre-game preparation in important, because it's fundamentally a reflection and the preparation of strategy. You don't just bring a mish-mash of available units, you bring units to perform a function that will contribute towards your victory or blunt your opponent's effort.
I like the middle size. Small games look always like "one big cool model [maybe 2 if you can fit it], and a bunch of cheerleaders" and basically come down to the big cool models shooting at each other until one dies and then mops up the cheerleaders. There aren't enough units to really score on objectives, barring the most horde-like horde army, so scoring the game is basically irrelevant over fragging their tank/monster/hero.
I'm also not a fan of the new 2k meta. We always used to do 1500 or later 1850, and I feel like the 2000 meta is just too big and doesn't really provide enough constraints on list capability. You can bring too much and sacrifice nothing.
As for complexity and depth, I would say that in general the more the game adds in rules to enhance simulationism the less "deep" the game gets. The optimum wargame is somewhere in between. I think 40k is in a good place. I have complaints, but so does everybody, and it's fantastically better than 7e.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Hellebore wrote: If you don't want to use one of the many epic rulesets out there, why not use apocalypse rules? It's far better suited to epic Games than normal 8th ed.
I like those even less they make it more of a card game and less of a dice based war game.
given that I prefer my normal 40K to be a lot more interactive with terrain, armor facings, vehicle damage and so forth. to deal with the scale of the forces of epic scale the streamlining of 8th ed fits perfectly while still feeling like 40K.
GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear/MCP
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
