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So I've got to the construction stage of some banshees and I'm eager to pick peoples brains on them. Particularly when it comes to building (and thus equipping) the exarch. As I see it there's two core choice areas:

1) How many to put into a single unit. Since each unit can only have one exarch this is a fairly important choice if one goes with a weapon combo that isn't just powersword and pistol. Going for a unit of 10 means they've got to go in a waveserpent for transporting; whilst going for 5 lets them go in a serpent or a falcon. In addition 5 is a smaller footprint and fewer units, so it can soak less and put out less; at the same time investing in 10 for a single unit is at least 130points

2) What weapons to take, of which there are three basic choices:

a) The standard powersword and pistol. This gives the exarch the same costs and abilities as the regular banshee (along with the exarch's improved number of attacks and wounds on its profile). It's the simplest solution and whilst it can stand out still, its possible to put it into a larger unit as a regular banshee if one wishes too.

b) Executioner for 3 points more than a powersword you got =1 strength, -3 ap and D3 damage. To me that's quite a significant advantage for only 3 points on one model, especially when you consider that it gets 3 attacks.

b) Triskele. only -2 ap in close combat, but gives assault 3, -2ap for ranged attacks. However its still only the 12 inches (same as the pistol). This for 2 points more than a powersword. To me this actually starts to ask one of the bigger questions when using banshee, which is how practical they are as a skirmisher with both a ranged and closecombat attack, but weighted toward wanting to be in close combat. As a unit ideally made to take out camping ranged units using overwatch, I do wonder how often they get to fire off shots before they are locked in combat; or how often one might kited them in range, but not actually commit to close combat. It's a neat looking weapon that boosts the ranged potential of the unit, but that's not much to gain if there's very little actual practicality to doing that when the unit would rather focus on getting into close combat.

c) Mirrorswords. Same cost as a powersword and basically lets it reroll to hit. However you have to sacrifice its ranged attack. This again links straight into option b in practical use of them on the field.



Looking at the weapons I feel as if the choice is more weighted on how they are and do get used. The executioner offers no downsides to the base loadout and improves closecombat performance with no cost to ranged; the Mirrorswords give a small boost to close combat at a cost of ranged whilst the Triskele sacrifices some of the closecombat, for a boost in ranged performance. So I feel like a big part of this question isn't so much which weapon to choose; but more asking how do you use them and how to they practically perform on the tabletop when used.

 Overread wrote:
So I've got to the construction stage of some banshees and I'm eager to pick peoples brains on them. Particularly when it comes to building (and thus equipping) the exarch. As I see it there's two core choice areas:

1) How many to put into a single unit.

All 10. They're still only S3, so you need number of attacks to carry the day. Plus a unit of 10 benefits more from strats and psyker powers. Also, Falcons aren't exactly great and driving around Banshees is probably a bad use for them. OTOH Waveserpents are good.

2) What weapons to take, of which there are three basic choices:

Executioners. Huge boost to damage output with no downsides aside from cost.

What is your choice of Craftworld/traits? What is also in the army? How does it play? Why are you using Banshees?

Banshees are an instrument you fine tune for particular things. The most basic use is 5 girls with Executioner and basic power of -1 to hit to tie up enemy shooty units and cancel overwatch, but there are other ways you can run them.

There's no overall army plan from my end. This is going in fully fresh and just looking at the potential options and variety of uses that Banshees have.

From being a cornerstone to being a niche element within the army. Whilst their use will vary I'm interesting in seeing the patterns that emerge in how they are used and how they perform as whilst there will be variation, there will also be common themes.

I'd go MSU with Executioner Exarch as whilst I dont have my book to hand I suspect the Exarchs will do more damage than the rest of her noodle swinging sisters

I tend to run my banshees in 2 different styles.

First is maxed out. Executioner, 10 ladies, spend the CP to get them double traits and take the 5++ in cc trait.

These banshees I typically am going to use Quicken to fling straight into combat turn 1, often with Enhance as well to make sure they kill something.

The other one I've found surprising success with is minimum squad with whirling blades on the exarch. I mostly use these guys to bomb out and whack a chaff squad, they kill about 5 GEQ/fire warriors/whatever, then they tripoint a couple dudes and finish them off in the opponent's turn.

I like Banshees, they are a solid little utility unit now, when paired with expert crafters; 5-woman squads, exarch taking piercing strike. They can pretty reliably kill one or two primaris or aggressors, for example, and turning off overwatch is a joy. I disagree with John Prins, they're a great fit for the Falcon which is now at the top of the pile for competitive CWE.

The toughest variable to quantify is the speed. Banshees have the ability to strike things far across the table. Out of a transport starting on your deployment zone edge they can have a range of 11.5" (advancing) move +3" for transport and 10" charge with no buffs or anything. This means a reasonable first turn charge if the enemy places a unit across from them. So the idea of MSU in falcons isn't as bad as you might think if they are out turn 1.

My thoughts may be influenced. I have been running Expert Craftsmen (each unit rerolls a single to hit and to wound) plus the trait that gives Aspect warriors +1 damage on a six to wound. I run a LOT of aspect warrior in my army (6 units of 5) so bear that in mind. This makes the extra chances to wound worth more than the extra damage of the executioner for me, as I fight a lot of 2 wounders.

Load out is trickier. If Doom is going to be used to aid them (I almost always do) and I add the +1 to wound, then the executioner becomes less needed and the extra swings from the mirror swords become huge. This changes your exarch power load out (although I always keep the -1 to be hit in CC). With doom and the +1 wound, the whirling blades becomes more useful. I always think of my MSU (5 squad) banshees as 1 use weapons, so am not a fan of the 5+ feel no pain, but am not saying it isn't good.

I always fire the pistols at a different target, so its free chances to plink some things. I have not found the triskelee useful enough over the pistol. Just my experience.

Of course, all that said, I usually have 10 banshees, a psycher and autarch or Jain Zar (who is weak I know, but...) in my Wave serpent. Often, the Autarch had whirling blades for an extra -1 AP on hit rolls of 6 (not great, but most of the eldar warlord traits are crap)

I therefore mix the weapons. One unit gets mirrorswords and whirling blades and becomes the target for doom etc, while the second gets the executioner and usually hangs near my Autarch if he's being used.

I personally run beil Tan with my banshees, I run 3 squads, 2 of 5 and 1 of 10. The 2 of 5 start on the table and rush up, typically getting a t1 charge. Their job is simply to shut down the enemy's shooting for a turn or 2, tie things up and be pains in the butt. The big squad gets to deep strike. Using the court of the young king strat they get to add 2 to their charge roll out of deep strike, that is typically enough to get them to hit a valuable back field target t2.

Loadout the 5 girl teams are default with the exarch getting an executioner. The 10 girl is the same but I spend the cp to give them a 5+++ in cc.

They never last the entire battle for me but they do help me win games.

I've found them pretty useful skirmishers and harassers when I've used them. They're not massively killy except against things like guard and firewarriors but they're great for disruption. Feigned retreat has proved useful in certain circumstances, especially if they shut down overwatch for other harder hitting units leaving them free to tie up something else.