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Made in lt
Regular Dakkanaut





I love these guys. Warriors of Old. Swordmasters with heavy armor. I love their concept, I love how they look. Their models look amazing. Yet, I really struggle in using them. In yesterday's tournament they did very little. In first match they just sat there being shot at. I lacked range to charge with them in time and then they were too few in order to be worth triggering free Man of War range attack on their deaths. At least they had delayed a lot more expensive and tough unit from doing anything much really. In second game whole squad was just wiped by Electromancers and their chain electric attack. In third game they had performed quite well even if they kept failing their tough saves. They ate bunch of Trenchers shots and they had managed to secure me two points and remain relevant until last turns.

Yet, I feel like I'm just trying too hard to make them relevant. I love models. I want them to succeed, but I feel like I'm handicapping myself with them. Anything they can do, someone else can do it better. Hallberders are in similar price range with their command squad and I get a lot more versatility out of them. Their high armor value. Their superior mobility with reposition. Thane can easily give them +2 movement. If I change theme, Dawnguard Sentinels are like Defenders, but actually good if more expensive. I also struggle in understanding how to use them. They have precision strike, but I end up wanting them to go into melee with other squads of infantry, to skirmish around. Maybe I use them in a wrong fashion and they should be sent as anti warjack unit?

In general, I do not know how to use them efficiently. They have such mediocre statline. 14 def, 15 armor and I always seem to roll 4 on their tough rolls... I would like to know if they are any good and how best I should employ them. I already looked for support solos. They have Aelyth Vyr attachment, but it is very expensive and gives them Hard trait which seems fairly useless to be honest. Lanyssa Ryssyl gives them +2 on charge which is useful and solo itself is good. So, she is essentially that Thanos is for Hallberders. Priest of Nysor can give them total MAT 8 which is really good. Though, it is 13 points of support for 16 points 10 unit squad. That is A LOT of support just for one unit and it feels like your are building your army around Defenders rather than other way around.

So, what do you guys think? Can you sell me on them?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/24 09:49:36


"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Kansas, United States

I wish I could.... my Retribution-fu is weak.

Look for 'casters with unit-wide ARM buffs or DEF buffs. 14 DEF is a good start, but if you can kick that up by 2 (or 4!) they start to really shine. Use terrain and take cover, but if you do so, look for ways to give them Pathfinder. These are things that are useful on any units, so they're not Defender specific.

Also, check out the Warmachine University article on them: https://warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Ryssovass_Defenders
   
Made in lt
Regular Dakkanaut





Lanyssa Ryssyl gives hunter's mark which grants them +2 movement on charge. Issyria grants them +2 more on charge. I had fixed their primary problem of low speed and being unable to engage. Combined with her feat, I can make 5d6 damage rolls discarding dice of my choice. Priest of Nyssor enables them to become pretty damn accurate buffing their mat from 7 to 8. Their main issue is engaging the target itself due to speed 5 and no mobility fixes. Their strength is their cheapness and lack of reliance of attachments or solos.

The only "attachment" they really need is Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress and she is rather universal, giving free and longer charges to everyone and she is not completely worthless outside buffing your army too.

Where Defenders excel is in their overall damage. Weapon master on such unit gives them effective POW of 14. Hallberders achieve such POW only during their charge. A single defender does 10 + 14 damage on charge. Hallberder does 14 + 10,5. On average Defenders do 20,5 damage while Hallberders do 17. If we equal out both units in points by adding support to Defenders, they get +2 accuracy advantage which is extremely useful against high def targets. In a typical environment, you will be forced to make combined attacks with them, wasting 2 units for realistic attack on a single model for +1 accuracy advantage and almost equal damage potential.

In general, I prefer Defenders due to their tendency to stick to the board. Even when "wiped" by powerful unit someone will likely roll tough roll and there will be survivors who will prevent you from taking attrition point damage in match's aftermath. Defenders are cheaper without addons, are more self sufficient and they tend to retain their value. Hallberders are more mobile and rely on high armor to survive where Defenders have more average, but better balanced statline which yields better to buffs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 20:14:48


"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
 
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