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Numerous tournament rules packs use a Ground Floor LOS blocking variant.

This creates peculiar interactions and answer-strategies, including Magic Boxes but also just generally invisible units—that force LOS ignoring answers (and their armies) into the forefront and onto the top tables.

Conversely, it is clearly a well intentioned rule meant to pragmatically, and simply resolve issues with terrain whereby aesthetics and creativity may result in no LOS blocking at all. This is also a problem.

Finally, while this would, on paper, appear to assist close-combat armies in effecting a safer transit up the table, due to employable Tactics (e.g., placing models 1.01” away from the wall) and that current highly effective combat armies are using direct-drop tactics anyway (whether deep strike or teleportation), this rule may actually be making it worse for combat armies rather than better.

Thoughts?

Magic Boxes are a band aid addressing a symptom of a different root cause problem.

The root cause problem is TLOS coupled with no rule for tracing LOS over/through intervening units/terrain along with poor rules for occupying terrain and the benefits of doing so.

The lack of intervening means you either shoot at full effect when you see it or you don't. Which makes the only thing that matters being LoS blocking. And TLOS with this means if you can see ANYTHING then you can see EVERYTHING.

There needs to be a penalty to hit for shooting through things making the front line targets the optimal targets for chance of success.


Again, the magic boxes are putting a bandaid on the symptom of the poor or lacking LoS and terrain rules. Fix the root cause. Thats not a solution looking for a problem. It's a solution mitigating a bigger problem.

I think a well balanced table is the answers. I have modelled several buildings where the bottom floor clearly blocks LOS and others where it does not. Only the buildings that clearly block LOS are said to block LOS. It works quite nicely. Importantly the LOS blocking terrain can't be accessed at all on the ground floor. It is a solid block with ruins on top.

 vim_the_good wrote:
I think a well balanced table is the answers. I have modelled several buildings where the bottom floor clearly blocks LOS and others where it does not. Only the buildings that clearly block LOS are said to block LOS. It works quite nicely. Importantly the LOS blocking terrain can't be accessed at all on the ground floor. It is a solid block with ruins on top.

Great solution!

 vim_the_good wrote:
I think a well balanced table is the answers. I have modelled several buildings where the bottom floor clearly blocks LOS and others where it does not. Only the buildings that clearly block LOS are said to block LOS. It works quite nicely. Importantly the LOS blocking terrain can't be accessed at all on the ground floor. It is a solid block with ruins on top.

Only problem is stores and groups stuck with a large amount of terrain made before 8th edition. For many of these players they have multiple tables of terrain that simply doesn't do much ruleswise. It can look cool and is neat for infantry to set up in, but ultimately does little to stop a gun tank like a shadowsword having it's way with the entire board.

Its not the only problem. How do slow units occupy the terrain?. Necrons mostly move 4".

How does the terrain YOU made translate to everyone elses tables?

Why are the rules not robust enough to deal with all kinds of terrain?

Its nice that on your table your house rules function for you. But its meaningless to the actual root problem with the game.

4"? Your group really hates you for adding such a house rule in place.

TLoS means that if you can see an antenna then you can shoot at an antenna. I say go for it.

Frankly to say that TLoS means that to see an antenna means that you can shoot anything else but an antenna is either to misunderstand the word "true" or to cheat. In either case I don't play a game with you twice.

 vim_the_good wrote:
I think a well balanced table is the answers. I have modelled several buildings where the bottom floor clearly blocks LOS and others where it does not. Only the buildings that clearly block LOS are said to block LOS. It works quite nicely. Importantly the LOS blocking terrain can't be accessed at all on the ground floor. It is a solid block with ruins on top.

Ditto. I did exactly this and it works just fine. No daft magic boxes. The core rules work fantastically if your terrain doesn’t suck.

I'm still wishing for something akin to the way Malifaux handles line of sight. Intervening terrain can either block line of sight or provide cover. Models and terrain have a height characteristic and line of sight uses the models' bases. So players are free to model kneeling snipers, gratuitous use of Tactical Rocks (TM) and all the whips/arials/wings/banners they want with no impact on LoS.

Simple 'base-to-base' LOS and ruins that 'you can shoot into/out of but not through' seems to cover good portion of terrain rules' shortcoming in my experience.

I would like to see interactions like go to ground or take cover that would activate modifiers and obviate LoS while under such orders. For instance taking cover should provide a negative to hit modifier for all models in a unit regardless of apparent LoS.