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2020/02/25 06:05:34
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Is there an official ruling on how it is supposed to be handled when units or wargear options that were in the Index are not in legends and not in the codex?
I'm asking specifically because of the Sisters of Battle Rhino, which in the codex cannot take two Storm Bolters, and in Legends also cannot take two Storm Bolters, meaning I have a bunch of rhinos armed a loadout that apparently cannot be used in any game system. I'd be frustrated if it were moved to Legends, but at least then I'd know what to do with them.
Have GW officially stated that the old flowchart no longer applies, or is it still an option?
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2020/02/25 07:49:30
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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They have not explicitly stated it, but the flowchart isnt there so the only conclusion we can come to is that it must no longer apply.
If the flowchart doesnt apply, there is no way for Datasheets from outside the index to access wargear in the index. So they cannot use them.
However, for the few datasheets from the index that have never been updated anywhere since the the index came out (dont appear in any Codex, Campaign book, white dwarf, or in Legends), there is no reason at all to stop you using the Index version. The flowchart is no required to access these datasheets.
There are only around 5 such datasheets I believe.
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2020/02/25 10:17:20
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Waaaghpower wrote:meaning I have a bunch of rhinos armed a loadout that apparently cannot be used in any game system.
Why would you not be able to use them "in any game system"?
How a model is equipped does not have any bearing on the datasheet.
So use your rhino's because the physical representations of their weapons do not matter. This is because WYSIWYG is no longer a rule.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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2020/02/25 11:41:10
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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There's no clear answer on it.
If it's a casual game, just ask your opponent. Most people will either let your take the 2nd Stormbolter or just agree to ignore that it's there.
In a Tournament, run it by the TO. You probably won't be able to take the 2nd one, but might be allowed to use the model since it's no longer a legal option and there shouldn't be any confusion.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/25 11:41:35
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2020/02/25 13:27:42
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Confessor Of Sins
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I'm with Asmodai. I don't expect many people will care that there are two Stormbolters on the model when it can only have one.
If your playing environment cares that much, it shouldn't be that hard to take one of them off the model.
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2020/02/25 18:07:31
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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 DeathReaper wrote:Waaaghpower wrote:meaning I have a bunch of rhinos armed a loadout that apparently cannot be used in any game system.
Why would you not be able to use them "in any game system"?
How a model is equipped does not have any bearing on the datasheet.
So use your rhino's because the physical representations of their weapons do not matter. This is because WYSIWYG is no longer a rule.
Well, that's why I specified I can't use the *loadout* in any game system. I take pride in having cool looking, painted models, and having to run them as proxies is always frustrating. (This is about the millionth time I've had a built and painted mini made unplayaple as built.)
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2020/02/25 18:15:39
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Norn Queen
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Which is why you should stop giving a gak about load out being exact to the model. They keep screwing that over. Its untenable over time. Stop caring.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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2020/02/25 20:14:52
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Waaaghpower wrote: DeathReaper wrote:Waaaghpower wrote:meaning I have a bunch of rhinos armed a loadout that apparently cannot be used in any game system.
Why would you not be able to use them "in any game system"?
How a model is equipped does not have any bearing on the datasheet.
So use your rhino's because the physical representations of their weapons do not matter. This is because WYSIWYG is no longer a rule.
Well, that's why I specified I can't use the *loadout* in any game system. I take pride in having cool looking, painted models, and having to run them as proxies is always frustrating. (This is about the millionth time I've had a built and painted mini made unplayaple as built.)
As Lance845 said, Stop caring about the GW BS that just screws people over by making models that we painted and assembled no longer a "valid" load-out.
A Sisters of Battle rhino with 2 SB's is not technically a proxy.
I am glad they got rid of WYSIWYG.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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2020/02/25 20:31:19
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Norn Queen
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Your models are fine, but you can't use the rules for non-existent wargear.
That's the end of it, really.
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2020/02/25 22:24:00
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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In a friendly I doubt anyone would consider two storm Bolters on a Sisters Rhino to be a game-breaking horror that you couldn’t field if you payed the extra 2pts...
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 Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2020/02/25 23:04:34
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 JohnnyHell wrote:In a friendly I doubt anyone would consider two storm Bolters on a Sisters Rhino to be a game-breaking horror that you couldn’t field if you payed the extra 2pts...
Regardless, it is not an option anymore. Take it up to GW. CLEARLY they had balance reasons in mind making it this way after all.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
 jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
 vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
 MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
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2020/02/25 23:25:58
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Walking Dead Wraithlord
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:In a friendly I doubt anyone would consider two storm Bolters on a Sisters Rhino to be a game-breaking horror that you couldn’t field if you payed the extra 2pts...
Regardless, it is not an option anymore. Take it up to GW. CLEARLY they had balance reasons in mind making it this way after all.
Nah they had "youre not allowed to build your own dudes because no model no rules, its our god damn moneyyyy$$$$$$ grrrr!!!" in mind.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/26 01:05:54
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2020/02/25 23:52:45
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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FWIW, warhammer community is now missing 4 of the legends (eldar, DA, SW, GK). Probably a mishap from the new intern but yeah. So for those factions, even legends entries are illegal.
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2020/02/26 00:09:16
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Lieutenant General
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 skchsan wrote:FWIW, warhammer community is now missing 4 of the legends (eldar, DA, SW, GK). Probably a mishap from the new intern...
Nah. They went missing with the Warhammer Community upgrade (doesn't a file or two always go missing in an upgrade  ). Pretty easy to find with a Google search.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2020/02/26 13:36:32
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Deadly Dire Avenger
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There's a maintained list of all the GW publications on https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/wiki/Publications. It has links to all the Legends PDFs, even the "lost" ones.
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Battlescribe data author for:
All things Chaos in 40k, Kill Team, Apocalypse
Report issues with the data here:
https://www.github.com/bsdata/
Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/UrrPB3T |
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2020/02/26 14:59:24
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:In a friendly I doubt anyone would consider two storm Bolters on a Sisters Rhino to be a game-breaking horror that you couldn’t field if you payed the extra 2pts...
Regardless, it is not an option anymore. Take it up to GW. CLEARLY they had balance reasons in mind making it this way after all.
The crazy thing is, in a friendly (as I mentioned) it absolutely is an option.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2020/02/26 15:14:18
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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skchsan wrote:FWIW, warhammer community is now missing 4 of the legends (eldar, DA, SW, GK). Probably a mishap from the new intern but yeah. So for those factions, even legends entries are illegal.
If you change the "sort by" to Alphabetical: A-Z, the Craftworlds, SW and GK show up, but there are different ones missing. It seems like it wants to show only 14 of the 18 it claims it has.
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2020/02/26 19:18:29
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Norn Queen
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JohnnyHell wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:In a friendly I doubt anyone would consider two storm Bolters on a Sisters Rhino to be a game-breaking horror that you couldn’t field if you payed the extra 2pts...
Regardless, it is not an option anymore. Take it up to GW. CLEARLY they had balance reasons in mind making it this way after all.
The crazy thing is, in a friendly (as I mentioned) it absolutely is an option.
So is giving all your models 0 point Volcano Cannons. It's a meaningless comment because this forum is about the rules. Proposed Rules is for house rules.
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2020/02/27 00:22:58
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 BaconCatBug wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:In a friendly I doubt anyone would consider two storm Bolters on a Sisters Rhino to be a game-breaking horror that you couldn’t field if you payed the extra 2pts...
Regardless, it is not an option anymore. Take it up to GW. CLEARLY they had balance reasons in mind making it this way after all.
The crazy thing is, in a friendly (as I mentioned) it absolutely is an option.
So is giving all your models 0 point Volcano Cannons. It's a meaningless comment because this forum is about the rules. Proposed Rules is for house rules.
Ding ding ding we have a winner!
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
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2020/02/27 19:31:23
Subject: Re:Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Walking Dead Wraithlord
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Interestingly enough GW has somewhat backtracked on legends. At least for the poster boys..:
Q. Some datasheets that were in the 2017 edition of Codex:
Space Marines are not in the 2019 edition, but are still
in Index: Imperium 1. Can the versions from Index:
Imperium 1 still be used?
A: Yes, provided an updated datasheet is not found for
them elsewhere (e.g. in a codex supplement).
Considering legends for adeptus astrates with those specific units exists, I guess legends is not a real publication ?
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2020/02/27 19:40:57
Subject: Index Options that weren't moved to Legends?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
Douglasville, GA
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My guess is they just didn't bother to check if there was Astartes stuff that didn't make the transition, and gave the "if it ain't nowhere else, use the old stuff" answer.
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Eldar- 4436 pts
