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So I was wondering,

I'm thinking about starting a new Night Lords army, while looking through the rules for NL I noticed something. Night Lords cannot take any chaos related rules, no mark of chaos, no daemons, nothing like that, so that made me wonder, wouldn't that make buying a CSM codex totally pointless? (The NL I want to run aren't chaos-tainted) I guess there are some lore tidbits, but if anyone has the CSM codex if they could perhaps share if there is anything potentially useful in there for a NL army. If not, then

Theoretically,

could I run my normal Codex: Space Marines and use the stuff from that list, ie. datasheets and weapon charts etc. (with exceptions of course like legion/unit specific stuff)


And if I'm just being absolutely stupid and there are a whole new set of rules for heretic astartes that I am not aware of could anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

A lot of the rules you want to use for them aren't in the main codex, its in the rules supplement they got from the recent Psychic Awakening book, Faith and Fury. That and the Vigilus Burns (another campaign supplement) specialist detachment called the Host Raptorial basically covers what makes the Night Lords work as a concept, as going purely by codex limits you by a lot, as you've already noticed.

 Bad Pun Generator wrote:
So I was wondering,

I'm thinking about starting a new Night Lords army, while looking through the rules for NL I noticed something. Night Lords cannot take any chaos related rules, no mark of chaos, no daemons, nothing like that, so that made me wonder, wouldn't that make buying a CSM codex totally pointless? (The NL I want to run aren't chaos-tainted) I guess there are some lore tidbits, but if anyone has the CSM codex if they could perhaps share if there is anything potentially useful in there for a NL army. If not, then

Theoretically,

could I run my normal Codex: Space Marines and use the stuff from that list, ie. datasheets and weapon charts etc. (with exceptions of course like legion/unit specific stuff)


And if I'm just being absolutely stupid and there are a whole new set of rules for heretic astartes that I am not aware of could anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

wait, have i missed something in the CSM codex that says night lords can't take chaos stuff?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Bad Pun Generator wrote:
So I was wondering,

I'm thinking about starting a new Night Lords army, while looking through the rules for NL I noticed something. Night Lords cannot take any chaos related rules, no mark of chaos, no daemons, nothing like that, so that made me wonder, wouldn't that make buying a CSM codex totally pointless? (The NL I want to run aren't chaos-tainted) I guess there are some lore tidbits, but if anyone has the CSM codex if they could perhaps share if there is anything potentially useful in there for a NL army. If not, then

Theoretically,

could I run my normal Codex: Space Marines and use the stuff from that list, ie. datasheets and weapon charts etc. (with exceptions of course like legion/unit specific stuff)


And if I'm just being absolutely stupid and there are a whole new set of rules for heretic astartes that I am not aware of could anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

wait, have i missed something in the CSM codex that says night lords can't take chaos stuff?

It doesn't say anything of the sort in the codex, though special characters are limited to their legion, as are some relics and stratagems. Night lords get their own relics and stratagems though, and have an ancient chaos lord model as well.

I have been so disgusted by Adeptus Restartes and 8th in general that I have considered doing the opposite and running my custom Marine chapter as traitor marines without chaos marks and beasties. The idea here is the Girlyman is a fraud and Restartes are heresy so any true loyalist is effectively a traitor. Besides that traitor marines are tougher and cooler than any Restartes ever will be... and should I decide to do that I expect that you should be able to run your Night Lords as regular weenies if that floats your boat.

 Bad Pun Generator wrote:
I'm thinking about starting a new Night Lords army, while looking through the rules for NL I noticed something. Night Lords cannot take any chaos related rules, no mark of chaos, no daemons, nothing like that, so that made me wonder, wouldn't that make buying a CSM codex totally pointless?

Sure, if you're using their rules from 3rd edition.

Night Lords have full access to everything Chaos has. Some players prefer the "purist" approach of not taking any marks of Chaos or daemonic things, but considering there absolutely are Chaos-worshipping Night Lords in the lore, this is only one way to do it.

Throw in some pretty nice strats and relics from Psychic Awakening and Night Lords are actually not half bad. Nothing quite like Warp Talons dropping in with a near-100% chance of charging on the same turn, while also shutting down enemy auras and doing all sorts of morale shenanigans.

Of course, Marines are "better" in competitive terms. No argument there. But they definitely get an award for "Most Improved" in the Faith & Fury book, IMHO.

 jeff white wrote:
I have been so disgusted by Adeptus Restartes and 8th in general that I have considered doing the opposite and running my custom Marine chapter as traitor marines without chaos marks and beasties. The idea here is the Girlyman is a fraud and Restartes are heresy so any true loyalist is effectively a traitor. Besides that traitor marines are tougher and cooler than any Restartes ever will be... and should I decide to do that I expect that you should be able to run your Night Lords as regular weenies if that floats your boat.

I too have had this thought.

No Primaris, old short marine gear only. In terms of chapter special ability I would discuss with the oppo having +1 damage to all weapons to level the field with Primaris.

Counts as is doable.

Raven Guard would be a pretty good base. Lots of ways to Infiltrate and gain the old Stealth Adept of old.

Blood Angels could work. Use Death Company as Posessed or berzerkers.


Personally, I was running my Night Lords as Alpha Legion for the start 8th, favoring stealth over scary faces.

I just realized that rievers are an almost straight rip off of Terror Squads. Terror troops rule, infiltrate, skull helmets. Just for loyalists instead of the Eighth Legion.

Fething gw.

 jeff white wrote:
I have been so disgusted by Adeptus Restartes and 8th in general that I have considered doing the opposite and running my custom Marine chapter as traitor marines without chaos marks and beasties. The idea here is the Girlyman is a fraud and Restartes are heresy so any true loyalist is effectively a traitor. Besides that traitor marines are tougher and cooler than any Restartes ever will be... and should I decide to do that I expect that you should be able to run your Night Lords as regular weenies if that floats your boat.

Love this idea!

Much like Loyalist Alpha Legion fans, you are working with old outdated lore. NL 100% use marks, demons and demon engines. They use anything and everything they can to cause terror and strife. The thing is they do not "worship" the gods like other legions do. But they will take power when offered. They make no effigy, and do not pray. But that does not stop the four from granting them power. They do not see themselves as chaos, but far far far more often than not they have goals that work well with the other warbands and legions. They also have ton of Warp Talons in their warbands.

In game terms, you have ZERO restriction on what you bring other than other legions chars and relics.

Table wrote:
Much like Loyalist Alpha Legion fans, you are working with old outdated lore. NL 100% use marks, demons and demon engines. They use anything and everything they can to cause terror and strife. The thing is they do not "worship" the gods like other legions do. But they will take power when offered. They make no effigy, and do not pray. But that does not stop the four from granting them power. They do not see themselves as chaos, but far far far more often than not they have goals that work well with the other warbands and legions. They also have ton of Warp Talons in their warbands.

In game terms, you have ZERO restriction on what you bring other than other legions chars and relics.

Many Night Lords players prefer the old fluff however. And the best fluff about the legion (ADB's trilogy, Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night) supports the 3rd edition lore. Although you can take daemons, many prefer not to.

And that is 100% fine. But for what the OP is asking, the question is invalid because the rules say you can take anything and the new lore supports it. If a player adheres to old fluff over function then I would respect that greatly. As far as the play as aspect of the OP that would vary from location to location. Im pretty sure most tourn's wont allow it and my shop does not allow it. But I think im going over information that everyone knows, so ill shut up now.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Many Night Lords players prefer the old fluff however. And the best fluff about the legion (ADB's trilogy, Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night) supports the 3rd edition lore. Although you can take daemons, many prefer not to.

In ABD's Trilogy there is heaps about the filthy four being worshiped by the marines of the 8th.
one of the main characters Uzas, in first claw is a Korne Worshiper, and for the first two books the NL Warband they are in is led by Demon.....

Both thematically and in terms of tactics, furies and Tzeentch screamers would work well as Night Lords allies.

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Many Night Lords players prefer the old fluff however. And the best fluff about the legion (ADB's trilogy, Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night) supports the 3rd edition lore. Although you can take daemons, many prefer not to.

In ABD's Trilogy there is heaps about the filthy four being worshiped by the marines of the 8th.
one of the main characters Uzas, in first claw is a Korne Worshiper, and for the first two books the NL Warband they are in is led by Demon.....

3rd edition allowed for both daemon princes and possessed. Uzas didn't actually worship Khorne, though he was headed down that path. Vandred overpowered his daemon in the end and killed it along with himself. Night Lords will use chaos as a tool but don't generally worship it. Krieg Acerbus and his warband being the most obvious exception. Plenty of room to run your warband as you see fit.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Many Night Lords players prefer the old fluff however. And the best fluff about the legion (ADB's trilogy, Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night) supports the 3rd edition lore. Although you can take daemons, many prefer not to.

In ABD's Trilogy there is heaps about the filthy four being worshiped by the marines of the 8th.
one of the main characters Uzas, in first claw is a Korne Worshiper, and for the first two books the NL Warband they are in is led by Demon.....

3rd edition allowed for both daemon princes and possessed. Uzas didn't actually worship Khorne, though he was headed down that path. Vandred overpowered his daemon in the end and killed it along with himself. Night Lords will use chaos as a tool but don't generally worship it. Krieg Acerbus and his warband being the most obvious exception. Plenty of room to run your warband as you see fit.

Uzas is debatable, lots of chanting when prepping for battle if I recall, and Berzerker states slaughtering slaves in his name when he was bored, I see that as worship, but each to their own.
However if your insinuating that Vandred was using the Demon as a tool, in no way was that the case. He only overpowered it for a minute or two, and was making his final stand, saving his energy to take the demon out with him. The war band was absolutely led by the Demon, not the other way round.

But you are right the 8th do not generally worship it, only a small proportion of them.

And to anyone wanting to better understand the 8th legion ABD's trilogy is a must read.

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Many Night Lords players prefer the old fluff however. And the best fluff about the legion (ADB's trilogy, Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night) supports the 3rd edition lore. Although you can take daemons, many prefer not to.

In ABD's Trilogy there is heaps about the filthy four being worshiped by the marines of the 8th.
one of the main characters Uzas, in first claw is a Korne Worshiper, and for the first two books the NL Warband they are in is led by Demon.....

3rd edition allowed for both daemon princes and possessed. Uzas didn't actually worship Khorne, though he was headed down that path. Vandred overpowered his daemon in the end and killed it along with himself. Night Lords will use chaos as a tool but don't generally worship it. Krieg Acerbus and his warband being the most obvious exception. Plenty of room to run your warband as you see fit.

Uzas is debatable, lots of chanting when prepping for battle if I recall, and Berzerker states slaughtering slaves in his name when he was bored, I see that as worship, but each to their own.
However if your insinuating that Vandred was using the Demon as a tool, in no way was that the case. He only overpowered it for a minute or two, and was making his final stand, saving his energy to take the demon out with him. The war band was absolutely led by the Demon, not the other way round.

But you are right the 8th do not generally worship it, only a small proportion of them.

And to anyone wanting to better understand the 8th legion ABD's trilogy is a must read.

Vandred probably started out thinking he'd use the daemon as a tool, but ended up being a tool for the daemon instead. And most of the rest of the warband detested the Exalted.

Fully agreed on the recommendation of ADB's trilogy. I'd also recommend Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night and ADB'S hh Night Lords short stories to anyone interested in the Eighth.