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If this has been brought up already, I apologize. Strapped for time so I've not looked it up to see if it has. Merge or purge as needed.

Without doxxing myself- I work closely with the medical field, and so the topic of Coronavirus has been pretty hot lately at work AND outside of work, and I'm pretty sure I'm sick of hearing about it and so are most of you, so I won't bog you down with why you shouldn't panic but also why you should take it seriously (it's not going to be some death plague extinction event- this will still suck a lot, because the flu sucks and a lot of people getting the flu sucks even more).

But keep this in mind:

A lot of people handle everything at your FLGS. When was the last time you saw someone clean the terrain? It wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a disinfecting wipe-down yourself if you're going to use it. Talk to the FLGS staff about it. At the place where I part-time on weekends, we're all tasked with cleaning the the tables, terrain, and other things repeatedly throughout the day and providing hand sanitizer and wipes to people who use the gaming rooms.

This includes the merch out on the floor- people flip through the books, pick up boxes and look at them, flip through the card binders, etc. You really don't want to risk getting all your gamer buddies sick (or the staff at the shop), so at least bring it up.

Please don't be 'that guy' and decide to go do some gaming at the FLGS/game club if you're feeling sick. Stay at home, monitor your health, paint your models, watch a movie, have some chicken noodle soup and Sprite and contact a doctor if you start running a fever and coughing more than you normally do during this time of year. Better safe than sorry, just don't be the guy that drags sickness into the FLGS because you wanted to play games.

You don't have to be a jerk to anyone, but: If someone comes in and they're coughing and sneezing and sniffling everywhere, it might be a good idea to avoid them as politely as possible, and mention it to the staff. Hey, maybe the guy or gal needs that extra encouragement to go see a doctor, you could be helping him out. Either way, it's okay to try and keep your FLGS safe for a while, and considering the circumstances I'm sure it's understandable. Just don't be a douchebag.

Consider rescheduling those big tournaments and events, too. That's just asking for problems.

Hey, if nothing else- for the next few weeks you'll have plenty of time to paint your models. No excuses now!

Hope everyone gets through this okay, Dakkanauts.

This is all good advice. Taiwan has a low infection rate despite being so close to the epicenter because people here take it seriously.

If the rest of the world did, it wouldn't be in so much trouble.

Good advice, and thank you for sharing.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
If the rest of the world did, it wouldn't be in so much trouble.

It's not going to be apocalyptic. People with weak immune systems and the elderly people are vulnerable, and those are the ones that have the major concerns. Ideally, that'll be easy to mitigate but I can assure you that some idiot is gonna drag their infant out to Wal-Mart to buy a pair of flip-flops and some Funyuns before they just grab every doorknob and shake every hobo's hand for a block and then go high five their 80-year-old grandma right across the mouth and then when the inevitable happens to the toddler and grandma, they're gonna be like "WUHABBEN?!?! WHY NOBODDEE HELPDED ME?!?! DUMB GUBBERMENT!"

I don't think we're in 'trouble', but I do think we're about to experience quite a bit of "character development" aside from the above.

Where the 'trouble' is coming from is the people that are going to get pissed off when they realize that their normal day-to-day routines and activities are going to be moderately to severely inconvenienced. I think that certain elements of our society are about to have their patience severely tested, and the things they take for granted (and those they fail to acknowledge or consider, despite their importance) will become painfully obvious.

Other than that, there's a few people that are getting a bit... more concerned than they should, and they're stocking up on water, toilet paper, canned food, supplies, etc. I mean... call me what you like but I'm wondering why it took a panic like this to make someone consider having some of those things stocked up, but that's just me and I've lived through a natural disaster or two in my time... what do I know?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/784835.page

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
If the rest of the world did, it wouldn't be in so much trouble.

It's not going to be apocalyptic. People with weak immune systems and the elderly people are vulnerable, and those are the ones that have the major concerns. Ideally, that'll be easy to mitigate but I can assure you that some idiot is gonna drag their infant out to Wal-Mart to buy a pair of flip-flops and some Funyuns before they just grab every doorknob and shake every hobo's hand for a block and then go high five their 80-year-old grandma right across the mouth and then when the inevitable happens to the toddler and grandma, they're gonna be like "WUHABBEN?!?! WHY NOBODDEE HELPDED ME?!?! DUMB GUBBERMENT!"

I don't think we're in 'trouble', but I do think we're about to experience quite a bit of "character development" aside from the above.

Where the 'trouble' is coming from is the people that are going to get pissed off when they realize that their normal day-to-day routines and activities are going to be moderately to severely inconvenienced. I think that certain elements of our society are about to have their patience severely tested, and the things they take for granted (and those they fail to appreciate) will become painfully obvious.

Other than that, there's a few people that are getting a bit... more concerned than they should, and they're stocking up on water, toilet paper, canned food, supplies, etc. I mean... call me what you like but I'm wondering why it took a panic like this to make someone consider having some of those things stocked up, but that's just me and I've lived through a natural disaster or two in my time... what do I know?

Goodness, the toilet paper. Not that I mind, but has toilet paper stockpiling become a meme or something over the past while? I seem to be hearing about this quite a bit lately.

 Ouze wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/784835.page

Since this thread is specifically about FLGS and how to approach gaming, I think it can stay separate...

 SkavenLord wrote:
Goodness, the toilet paper. Not that I mind, but has toilet paper stockpiling become a meme or something over the past while? I seem to be hearing about this quite a bit lately.

During Hurricane Katrina, a lot of places just didn't get TP for a while. So, one of the things they tell you to stockpile is toilet paper, because otherwise you'll end up... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qLWnEVhpBU

Otherwise, I suppose it's a meme? I don't know, I tend to buy the big thing of toilet paper that lasts me an entire year, and just keep the closet full...

...only because I know that when I DO run out of toilet paper, I'll go to the store and walk out with $250.00 worth of stuff I didn't need, get home, then go and take a poop and realize I never bought toilet paper.

 SkavenLord wrote:
Goodness, the toilet paper. Not that I mind, but has toilet paper stockpiling become a meme or something over the past while? I seem to be hearing about this quite a bit lately.

Yeah, it's a thing. My wife picked up some today when doing normal grocery shopping and got the last roll in the store (normal supermarket). The cashier said that they were allegedly out at our local target and walmart as well.

All gaming stores in my city are going to sales-only starting next week; still open to sell product but no gaming allowed in-store.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
All gaming stores in my city are going to sales-only starting next week; still open to sell product but no gaming allowed in-store.

It doesn't seem like a 1-on-1 game against an opponent would necessarily put anyone more at risk than browsing merchandise, though, does it? I guess you do tend to get a group stopping by watching rather than just a single person, but still...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
All gaming stores in my city are going to sales-only starting next week; still open to sell product but no gaming allowed in-store.

This is worth consideration, but we're adjusting based on reported cases and such. We're honestly not expecting a huge turnout at all.

One thing we are encouraging is for people who play in their own little groups to consider grabbing up some smaller games like Kill-Team, Necromunda, Shadespire, or other board games and small-scale stuff and maybe just have a friend or two over to play on their weekends to scratch the itch.

Also, we've discussed hosting a contest- buy a model this week, and go home and paint it- once this has all blown over, bring it in and we'll have a competition to see whose is the best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
It doesn't seem like a 1-on-1 game against an opponent would necessarily put anyone more at risk than browsing merchandise, though, does it? I guess you do tend to get a group stopping by watching rather than just a single person, but still...

We're talking about someone hanging out for an hour or more to play a game- versus someone coming in, grabbing something off the shelf, making a purchase, and going home after 15 minutes, tops. You do want to minimize exposure time as much as possible.

A lot of people handle everything at your FLGS. When was the last time you saw someone clean the terrain? It wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a disinfecting wipe-down yourself if you're going to use it. Talk to the FLGS staff about it.

Only issue I can think of here is taking disinfectant wipes to most LGS terrain would destroy a fair amount of it. Even the tougher stuff would probably suffer wear and tear to the paint jobs.

Definitely not something I'd recommend doing unilaterally.

Voss wrote:

A lot of people handle everything at your FLGS. When was the last time you saw someone clean the terrain? It wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a disinfecting wipe-down yourself if you're going to use it. Talk to the FLGS staff about it.

Only issue I can think of here is taking disinfectant wipes to most LGS terrain would destroy a fair amount of it. Even the tougher stuff would probably suffer wear and tear to the paint jobs.

Definitely not something I'd recommend doing unilaterally.

Lysol won't hurt painted terrain, unless there's no varnish on it. And if your terrain doesn't have varnish on it, it'd be screwed up long before applying a lysol wipe.

Honestly at this point I'd close all shops that sell non-essential goods. Also places like restaurants, bars etc.. Virus is just too fething contagious to go browsing models or playing a game right now. Also depends on how bad the situation in your country/ area is of course. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm starting to feel in favor of a complete lockdown in the Netherlands to avoid getting into the same catastrophe as Italy

Mandating the closing of all restaurants, bars, etc would mean many would go out of business. Which would mean all their employees would lose their jobs... I honestly haven't seen this suggested anywhere.

Large gatherings are being stopped, close contact with others, but if a restaurant is keeping things clean it doesn't need to shut down. If I'm wrong on that and there's a scientific expert suggesting otherwise, please link me to it, of course... but that kind of action (along with closing borders) is not currently recommended from what I've seen. You don't want the solution to be worse than the problem...

Not to mention toilet door handles.

Just grab a bit of tissue out the cludgey, and use that as a barrier. Means filth wizards can't get your freshly washed hands. The Detty Pigs.

 RiTides wrote:
Mandating the closing of all restaurants, bars, etc would mean many would go out of business. Which would mean all their employees would lose their jobs... I honestly haven't seen this suggested anywhere.

Italy has shut all cafes and restaurants. Several European countries have been closing borders though they have been criticised for it by the EU this morning.

I'm very nervous about long term mandated isolation, however. You're really hanging domestic abuse victims, kids who only eat at school, poor people, and depressives and many other mentally ill people out to dry.

 RiTides wrote:
Mandating the closing of all restaurants, bars, etc would mean many would go out of business. Which would mean all their employees would lose their jobs... I honestly haven't seen this suggested anywhere.

Large gatherings are being stopped, close contact with others, but if a restaurant is keeping things clean it doesn't need to shut down. If I'm wrong on that and there's a scientific expert suggesting otherwise, please link me to it, of course... but that kind of action (along with closing borders) is not currently recommended from what I've seen. You don't want the solution to be worse than the problem...

At this point it's the only solution if we don't want a medical and humanitarian crisis like what's happening now in Italy. This virus is way too contagious. Problem is experts don't know everything about the virus yet, but I've read it's most contagious just before and during the onset of symptoms. Meaning you might infect the entire pub you're at while not feeling sick yet. Governments and the companies that own these stores need to step up and financially compensate shops who close their doors to stop the spread of the virus. The only shops that should be allowed to remain open and function as normal as humanly possible are stores that sell essential stuff like supermarkets, pharmacies etc. Any shop that sells luxury articles should shut the feth down. NOW. And be recompensed by the local authorities and the company that owns the store as fairly as is possible.

Edit: source articles:

- https://medium.com/@phoebetickell/i-need-you-to-read-this-and-decide-about-coronavirus-6dd184745b33 (not super scientific, this is where I read that the virus might be most contagious just before and at the moment you get sick. It's a bit of a long read but it's a good article to raise awareness and is well written so I recommend you read it in it's entirety)
- https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20030502v1.full.pdf (This is a scientific virological analysis the author of my first article links to to back up his claim about the period in which the virus is most contagious. I'd recommend you only read the bolded synopsis unless you have academic-level knowledge of microbiology and/ or virology).

A lot of stores aren't owned by a "company"... and with how long this may last, forcing Everything to close would be devastating both to society and to the economy.

Again, I haven't seen that being suggested except in the worst hit places. I'm very open to seeing scientific recommendations to the contrary, if applicable, of course...

Recommendations I've seen are all about sanitation, stopping large gatherings, and taking precautions. Not ending all commerce...

I've been following this since December, when the first videos starting coming out of China. Severely cut back on my FLGS time since then.

A few tips if you are going to visit one:

- Encourage the owners to keep the front door open, increase air flow even if it's just a crack. The virus can travel in the air. It's winter here, but it's been mild. Most people didn't notice the difference.

- Sanitize, bring a small bottle of Purell with you. If it's become scarce where you live, mix some isopropyl alcohol with a gel and bottle it up. Share with others but don't hand them the bottle, you might lose it.

- Don't shake hands. A head nod is just as good. Keep your hands off the inventory unless you plan to buy. The less you touch, the easier life will be.

- Bring your own dice and don't share them. If you're concerned your opponent won't have enough, that's fine, bring enough of a different color for that person to use.

- Sanitize your dice. Don't assume they are clean just because no one else touched them, you both rolled on the same table.

- Wear a bandana if not a mask. A couple people at my FLGS are construction workers and have access to stockpiles of N95s for silica and paint. We were wearing them starting in January, it takes away from the game because you don't see people's facial expressions. The FLGS is near a Harley store, we went over there to buy bandanas with skulls and stuff on them. That improved the situation.

 RiTides wrote:


Again, I haven't seen that being suggested except in the worst hit places.

You do realize, those places have been hit worst because they failed to take serious precautions soon enough, right? It's not luck or divine wrath that turned Italy into a place where almost 200 people died in 24 hours from the virus.

I honestly think for the next few weeks, it'd be prudent (especially if you live near/with 60+ elderly people) to simply cut down on non-essential outings.

Pandabear, I'll check out those links (edited in after I posted). Thanks for that

Cronch, I listed quite a number of precautions in my post (which you selectively quoted). I'm all for precautions - but the ones scientists recommend, not mass panic.

Edit: To your edited point, of course that would be prudent! And is very different from saying All stores must close...

 RiTides wrote:
A lot of stores aren't owned by a "company"... and with how long this may last, forcing Everything to close would be devastating both to society and to the economy.

Again, I haven't seen that being suggested except in the worst hit places. I'm very open to seeing scientific recommendations to the contrary, if applicable, of course...

Recommendations I've seen are all about sanitation, stopping large gatherings, and taking precautions. Not ending all commerce...

As I said, if a store is not owned by an overarching company the local authorities should step up and financially compensate. If the local authorities can't do that, the nationwide governments should and if even they can't central banks should step up and do anything neccessary to prevent money being an argument to not take antiviral countermeasures.

Thing is, the way in which we're going right now is going to make us end up like Italy in about 2 weeks. This is why it's necessary to shut down anything non-essential that can't be done from home. We want to prevent a disaster like there at all costs.

Also, I added some articles to my previous post.

edit: read your post too late so never mind the last sentence

Thanks for the links, panda! I'll check them out

Here's one a friend sent to me last night, very data-heavy and scientifically based:

https://www.fast.ai/2020/03/09/coronavirus

The recommendations:

Avoid large groups and crowds
Cancel events
Work from home, if at all possible
Wash hands when coming and going from home, and frequently when out
Avoid touching your face, especially when outside your home (not easy!)
Disinfect surfaces and packages (it’s possible the virus may remain active for 9 days on surfaces, although this still isn’t known for sure either way).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
All gaming stores in my city are going to sales-only starting next week; still open to sell product but no gaming allowed in-store.

I just asked my FLGS about that - best time to pick up kits and paint at home

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
If the rest of the world did, it wouldn't be in so much trouble.

It's not going to be apocalyptic. People with weak immune systems and the elderly people are vulnerable, and those are the ones that have the major concerns. Ideally, that'll be easy to mitigate but I can assure you that some idiot is gonna drag their infant out to Wal-Mart to buy a pair of flip-flops and some Funyuns before they just grab every doorknob and shake every hobo's hand for a block and then go high five their 80-year-old grandma right across the mouth and then when the inevitable happens to the toddler and grandma, they're gonna be like "WUHABBEN?!?! WHY NOBODDEE HELPDED ME?!?! DUMB GUBBERMENT!"

I don't think we're in 'trouble', but I do think we're about to experience quite a bit of "character development" aside from the above.

Where the 'trouble' is coming from is the people that are going to get pissed off when they realize that their normal day-to-day routines and activities are going to be moderately to severely inconvenienced. I think that certain elements of our society are about to have their patience severely tested, and the things they take for granted (and those they fail to acknowledge or consider, despite their importance) will become painfully obvious.

Other than that, there's a few people that are getting a bit... more concerned than they should, and they're stocking up on water, toilet paper, canned food, supplies, etc. I mean... call me what you like but I'm wondering why it took a panic like this to make someone consider having some of those things stocked up, but that's just me and I've lived through a natural disaster or two in my time... what do I know?

The trouble isn't with people dying per say- its with how much strain it will put on health services to manage the disease to keep it away from people at risk whop could/might die, and, importantly managing the economic impact from how many people end up missing work. To that end the high infection rate despite how most people have only mild symptoms is one of the problems.

 RiTides wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
All gaming stores in my city are going to sales-only starting next week; still open to sell product but no gaming allowed in-store.

It doesn't seem like a 1-on-1 game against an opponent would necessarily put anyone more at risk than browsing merchandise, though, does it? I guess you do tend to get a group stopping by watching rather than just a single person, but still...

The NHS is working on you having to have a close interaction (with 1 meter) with a person with covid 19 for about 15 minutes to have a good chance of picking up the infection, because it's spread mainly in the heavy droplets you get from coughs, sneezes etc rather than remaining 'floating' in the air

good hand hygene & not touching your face (especially eyes/mouth/nose) without washing your hands should deal with a lot of the virus that might be present on surfaces

so if your playing a game with an infected person your probably going to be infected, whereas if your just casually browsing in a store an infected person has also browsed you've got a much better chance of getting away with it (although if you spend an hour closely browsing that huge binder of magic singles the infected person also spent ages with not so much)

That makes sense, but the risk you describe there is from a single person (your opponent) being infected, whereas the guidance I've seen is regarding large group gatherings (where one person in the group might infect a number of others, and so is much less controllable).

In terms of how long a total lockdown would have to go on to be reasonably effective the UK government experts have modelled it to be 13-14 weeks, and if you do it but let folk out early you end up right back at the start very swiftly

it's why they're not closing schools and formally banning large gatherings yet as it's
an economic disaster,
it's going to take a load of important doctors, nurses, cleaners (vital for hospitals) etc out of the workforce to care for children not in school, a load of folk will try alternative childcare with grandparents (at high risk) or friends (which creates big groups of kids just like the schools that were shut down)
people will stop complying because they get fed up, they start to run out of stuff online shopping cant replace (even if they could get and order in with every body else in the country trying too

also while they've not said it I suspect there is also a worry about an explosion in domestic violence as there is always a big spike over Christmas where people are at home for a week in a 'pleasurable' environment, ramp that up to 3 months stuck at home, worrying about the virus, money, jobs security etc and I'd expect things to get very nasty