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Interested to read what people think about this. Honestly, from my perspective there is almost never a time to take a Flyer in space marines list. They are far too fragile and far too expensive.

Weren't Iron Hands flyers considered top tier a month ago? Did the nerfed IH benefits make the difference between top tier and blowing chunks?

Wyldhunt wrote:
Weren't Iron Hands flyers considered top tier a month ago? Did the nerfed IH benefits make the difference between top tier and blowing chunks?

Well in fairness basically any vehicle running as IH one month ago was top tier--however, flyers were still nowhere near as ridiculous as the Leviathan dreadnought and Repulsor. IH was beyond broken and probably still is and is largely responsible for this idea that space marines armies are universally overpowered which is simply untrue. Anyone who thinks that is probably just a terrible player, really. For the rest of of space marines Flyers have consistently blown chunks. They blew chunks yesterday, they blow chunks today, and unless something changes, they'll blow chunks tomorrow too.

The Leviathan is nowhere near the problem the Repulsor is. At least if you catch the Leviathan in melee you basically eliminated it. The other one just flies away and shoots you again.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Leviathan is nowhere near the problem the Repulsor is. At least if you catch the Leviathan in melee you basically eliminated it. The other one just flies away and shoots you again.

Well yeah, but we're talking pre-nerf which made the leviathan dreadnought nigh-unkillable. It was literally beating Titans.

Roberts84 wrote:
Honestly, from my perspective there is almost never a time to take a Flyer in space marines list. They are far too fragile and far too expensive.

Your perspective is wrong, check the tournament top lists from the past 5 months, there are Flyers scattered around. Start bringing your flyers and have fun. They could be better if their pts were lower, as could every unit type in the game. It's probably pretty stupid that any model forced to move ever takes a penalty to its hit rolls for moving, this forces them into sub-factions that can ignore this penalty when available, giving them all PotMS would fix a design issue and would make up for the recent Devastator Doctrine nerf. The Stormraven has a high base price, lowering that might be a good idea, it's almost always priority #1, ten times so if it has guys inside and the game is killy enough that it's utility as a transport and firepower are relatively way too high compared to its durability which is the problem with additive pts costs that don't respect the base cost or other weapons the model has. There is also the problem of different chapters being better or worse with different flyers, you can't have any of them be tier 0 for the best chapter, which leaves the chapter with the least synergy at tier 3 or worse, Devastator nerf has lowered this problem to a huge degree and does improve the possibility of lowered pts at some point, we'll have to see how good SM and flyers are in 5-8 months when tournaments get up and running again.

I would change the stormstrike missile launchers to 0 pts, Stormraven to 200. That would make it 241-304 instead of 275-338.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Leviathan is nowhere near the problem the Repulsor is. At least if you catch the Leviathan in melee you basically eliminated it. The other one just flies away and shoots you again.

Repulsor is way more fragile, though. Just kill it.

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Leviathan is nowhere near the problem the Repulsor is. At least if you catch the Leviathan in melee you basically eliminated it. The other one just flies away and shoots you again.

Repulsor is way more fragile, though. Just kill it.

It REALLY isn't so fragile with the 6+++ it gained for free with Iron Hands.

The others are though. That's an IH problem, not a repulsor problem.

Martel732 wrote:
The others are though. That's an IH problem, not a repulsor problem.

And none of the other Leviathans are a problem either. So there we go.

I think they are for sure. BA leviathan is way more broken than a BA repulsor. Leviathan needs BS 3+ or points hike or to go to legends imo.

What does IH have to do with a leviathan when wrapping is your solution?