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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




OK, I'm not trying start an Ork hate festival here, but Ghaz is flat-out broken. I'm also reading his data from saga of the beast from Belle of lost souls, so if this has been redacted or something I apologize. Just going on the information I have.

Firstly, no unit in the game should ever have a cap on how many wounds they can take per phase. This literally breaks the system, because anything attacking him will have to gamble wasting firepower on him due to the very real--indeed, probable, outcome that they will waste wounds should they exceed that cap. This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds (Holy gak BTW) that enemies will have to sink lots of attacks into him. Add to this a 6+ FNP with a banner and it gets even more bananas. Oh--and he's fething T7 along for the bargain.

It gets worse the more you think about it. Grey knights do most of their wounds in the psychic phase, so they're out of luck against him. Blood Angels basically do all their work in the fight phase. No joy there. Raven Guard benefit from character targeting and the shooting phase in general. Not a big deal since he can only take 4 wounds in that phase, too.

You can extend this problem to basically every faction in the game. GW has made something that is ridiculously effective against literally every faction in the game. Moreover he gets X attacks with a -4 AP D4 Melee weapon, and he's pretty much always going to make the charge. He will basically just death-chain around the board and be effectively unkillable. Oh--and morale fails made for orks around him mean far less than before given he has a special rule granting D3 mortal wounds.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/24 01:16:42


 
   
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In My Lab

Marines have the LEAST issues handling him-they can very reasonably do 8 wounds a turn, since Marines of all stripes have potent Assault AND Shooting elements. They can reasonably one-turn him, though that's less likely in a TAC list.

He has 5-7 attacks based on his tier. Feed him a cheap unit a turn and he'll do literally nothing important.

He only has a 6+++ (which basically doesn't matter-it's rarely going to be the difference between 3 and 4 wounds, and 4 wounds is the number that matters) if he's with Makarii, who sucks.

He's NOT always gonna make the charge-he has about a 50/50 shot of making it out of Deep Strike, he cannot advance and charge, and he has only a 7" move.

Moreover, he's close to 300 points.

I do agree that Max Wounds Per Phase is bad game design, but Ghaz is not even CLOSE to OP.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




LOL Ghaz sucks. 300 points for a Warboss that can't even benefit from his own aura? Yeah take him I'd an easy win.

CaptainStabby wrote:
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BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Bud you read this one bass ackwards to say the least. No competitive ork player is going to take Ghaz. For 1 CP and a relic you can get an 80pt Warboss with almost as good of abilities and damage output. On top of that, the warboss is character protected.

Turn 1 against any army in the game that can shoot Ghaz loses 4 wounds. In the psychic phase he has a chance of losing 4 more, don't forget some armies can do damage in the movement phase, in the charge phase you can shoot him and a lot of armies have decent overwatch abilities, in CC he isn't invulnerable, T7 with a 4++ save is good but not hard to kill. If you can't kill Ghaz in 2 turns your army is garbage.

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Regular Dakkanaut




SemperMortis wrote:
Bud you read this one bass ackwards to say the least. No competitive ork player is going to take Ghaz. For 1 CP and a relic you can get an 80pt Warboss with almost as good of abilities and damage output. On top of that, the warboss is character protected.

Turn 1 against any army in the game that can shoot Ghaz loses 4 wounds. In the psychic phase he has a chance of losing 4 more, don't forget some armies can do damage in the movement phase, in the charge phase you can shoot him and a lot of armies have decent overwatch abilities, in CC he isn't invulnerable, T7 with a 4++ save is good but not hard to kill. If you can't kill Ghaz in 2 turns your army is garbage.


It just about killing Ghaz. It's about the fact to ensure you kill Ghaz, you have to devote huge amounts of resources to do that whilst ignoring other units. Units which are going to roll up and wrap you. If you fail to kill him before that happens, then you're not killing him 2/3 phases. If you're not killing him 2/3 phases then you're probably not killing him.

Only being able to take 4 wounds is the best ability the game has ever seen.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/24 00:44:49


 
   
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Roberts84 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Bud you read this one bass ackwards to say the least. No competitive ork player is going to take Ghaz. For 1 CP and a relic you can get an 80pt Warboss with almost as good of abilities and damage output. On top of that, the warboss is character protected.

Turn 1 against any army in the game that can shoot Ghaz loses 4 wounds. In the psychic phase he has a chance of losing 4 more, don't forget some armies can do damage in the movement phase, in the charge phase you can shoot him and a lot of armies have decent overwatch abilities, in CC he isn't invulnerable, T7 with a 4++ save is good but not hard to kill. If you can't kill Ghaz in 2 turns your army is garbage.


It just about killing Ghaz. It's about the fact to ensure you kill Ghaz, you have to devote huge amounts of resources to do that whilst ignoring other units. Units which are going to roll up and wrap you. If you fail to kill him before that happens, then you're not killing him 2/3 phases. If you're not killing him 2/3 phases then you're probably not killing him.

Only being able to take 4 wounds is the best ability the game has ever seen.

You devote exactly enough resources to do 4 wounds to him, then you ignore him.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Bud you read this one bass ackwards to say the least. No competitive ork player is going to take Ghaz. For 1 CP and a relic you can get an 80pt Warboss with almost as good of abilities and damage output. On top of that, the warboss is character protected.

Turn 1 against any army in the game that can shoot Ghaz loses 4 wounds. In the psychic phase he has a chance of losing 4 more, don't forget some armies can do damage in the movement phase, in the charge phase you can shoot him and a lot of armies have decent overwatch abilities, in CC he isn't invulnerable, T7 with a 4++ save is good but not hard to kill. If you can't kill Ghaz in 2 turns your army is garbage.


It just about killing Ghaz. It's about the fact to ensure you kill Ghaz, you have to devote huge amounts of resources to do that whilst ignoring other units. Units which are going to roll up and wrap you. If you fail to kill him before that happens, then you're not killing him 2/3 phases. If you're not killing him 2/3 phases then you're probably not killing him.

Only being able to take 4 wounds is the best ability the game has ever seen.

You devote exactly enough resources to do 4 wounds to him, then you ignore him.


lol you're a genius!

Tell me; how do you know exactly how many resources that is? Crystal ball?
   
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Roberts84 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Bud you read this one bass ackwards to say the least. No competitive ork player is going to take Ghaz. For 1 CP and a relic you can get an 80pt Warboss with almost as good of abilities and damage output. On top of that, the warboss is character protected.

Turn 1 against any army in the game that can shoot Ghaz loses 4 wounds. In the psychic phase he has a chance of losing 4 more, don't forget some armies can do damage in the movement phase, in the charge phase you can shoot him and a lot of armies have decent overwatch abilities, in CC he isn't invulnerable, T7 with a 4++ save is good but not hard to kill. If you can't kill Ghaz in 2 turns your army is garbage.


It just about killing Ghaz. It's about the fact to ensure you kill Ghaz, you have to devote huge amounts of resources to do that whilst ignoring other units. Units which are going to roll up and wrap you. If you fail to kill him before that happens, then you're not killing him 2/3 phases. If you're not killing him 2/3 phases then you're probably not killing him.

Only being able to take 4 wounds is the best ability the game has ever seen.

You devote exactly enough resources to do 4 wounds to him, then you ignore him.


lol you're a genius!

Tell me; how do you know exactly how many resources that is? Crystal ball?
Shoot him with whatever's good (say, a squad of Stalker Bolt Rife Intercessors) until he takes four damage. Then shoot at other stuff.

For reference, it takes...

18 unsupported Stalker Intercessors, or 11.6 Chapter Master/Lieutenant supported Stalker Intercessors to do 4 wounds to Ghaz, on average.

If you have Devastator Squads, shoot one or two heavy weapons at him, and the rest at other targets.

For reference, it takes...

4.5 unsupported Lascannon or Krak Missile shots to do one unsaved WOUND to Ghaz (which has a 50/50 shot of doing 4+ damage, 75% with a CP-better than Ghaz's odds of making a charge out of Deep Strike), or 2.9 with Chapter Master and Lieutenant.

Compare that to something like an Imperial Knight. THAT can take a whole army's worth of shooting to take down.

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Shoot one unit at him: do X wounds. Shoot another unit at him: do X wounds. Continue until you reach four wounds. Stop. Shoot other units.
   
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Lammia's hot take: The Swarmlord is a bigger threat than Ghaz
   
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 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Bud you read this one bass ackwards to say the least. No competitive ork player is going to take Ghaz. For 1 CP and a relic you can get an 80pt Warboss with almost as good of abilities and damage output. On top of that, the warboss is character protected.

Turn 1 against any army in the game that can shoot Ghaz loses 4 wounds. In the psychic phase he has a chance of losing 4 more, don't forget some armies can do damage in the movement phase, in the charge phase you can shoot him and a lot of armies have decent overwatch abilities, in CC he isn't invulnerable, T7 with a 4++ save is good but not hard to kill. If you can't kill Ghaz in 2 turns your army is garbage.


It just about killing Ghaz. It's about the fact to ensure you kill Ghaz, you have to devote huge amounts of resources to do that whilst ignoring other units. Units which are going to roll up and wrap you. If you fail to kill him before that happens, then you're not killing him 2/3 phases. If you're not killing him 2/3 phases then you're probably not killing him.

Only being able to take 4 wounds is the best ability the game has ever seen.

You devote exactly enough resources to do 4 wounds to him, then you ignore him.


lol you're a genius!

Tell me; how do you know exactly how many resources that is? Crystal ball?
Shoot him with whatever's good (say, a squad of Stalker Bolt Rife Intercessors) until he takes four damage. Then shoot at other stuff.

For reference, it takes...

18 unsupported Stalker Intercessors, or 11.6 Chapter Master/Lieutenant supported Stalker Intercessors to do 4 wounds to Ghaz, on average.

If you have Devastator Squads, shoot one or two heavy weapons at him, and the rest at other targets.

For reference, it takes...

4.5 unsupported Lascannon or Krak Missile shots to do one unsaved WOUND to Ghaz (which has a 50/50 shot of doing 4+ damage, 75% with a CP-better than Ghaz's odds of making a charge out of Deep Strike), or 2.9 with Chapter Master and Lieutenant.

Compare that to something like an Imperial Knight. THAT can take a whole army's worth of shooting to take down.


I see. So your plan is to devote 18 intecessors with stalker bolt rifles into a single model for an outcome of 4 wounds assuming you hit average rolls., or 11.6 with a chapter master. So you have just dedicated the entire firepower of a very expensive unit for the outcome of possibly 4 wounds, which has the potential to clear an entire unit and score a point. That's assuming you even have LOS, or he isn't screened. Or maybe you designate high damage high AP low-output anti-tank into him, which he has a very real opportunity of simply shrugging due to his 4+, especially if he re-rolls a save. What happens the next turn when those intercessors, even if they do manage to sink in 4 wounds, get shot, then charged and wrapped? What if they only take two wounds? What if they whiff everything?

This is my entire point; it isn't just about killing Ghaz. It's about what you're not killing while you're trying to kill Ghaz.
   
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First off, 18 Intercessors are 306 points. 20 (a more realistic number) is 340. That's 55 points more than Ghaz... Or less than Ghaz and Makari together.

How do you screen him? He's 12 wounds. And he's a thic boi, so good luck finding decent LoS blocking terrain. And if he IS behind LoS blocking terrain, GOOD! He's a Monster-he can't walk through walls, so he's stuck walking AROUND the entire thing.

And if Ghaz isn't the biggest threat... THEN DON'T SHOOT GHAZ. That's not complicated. If your opponent is running three Evil Suns Bonebreakas and a Wartrike, then no dip you don't bother with Ghaz, because he's too slow to matter.

If your strategy relies on your opponent being stupid, it's not a good strategy.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
First off, 18 Intercessors are 306 points. 20 (a more realistic number) is 340. That's 55 points more than Ghaz... Or less than Ghaz and Makari together.

How do you screen him? He's 12 wounds. And he's a thic boi, so good luck finding decent LoS blocking terrain. And if he IS behind LoS blocking terrain, GOOD! He's a Monster-he can't walk through walls, so he's stuck walking AROUND the entire thing.

And if Ghaz isn't the biggest threat... THEN DON'T SHOOT GHAZ. That's not complicated. If your opponent is running three Evil Suns Bonebreakas and a Wartrike, then no dip you don't bother with Ghaz, because he's too slow to matter.

If your strategy relies on your opponent being stupid, it's not a good strategy.


That's exactly my point. He's too much of a badass to ignore, and he's too much of a sponge to clear, and is a massive waste of resources which he will force his opponent to waste because he has the most absurdly overpowered special rule the game has ever known.

And nothing like that should exist.
   
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Roberts84 wrote:
This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds


Ironically, he'd actually be far more threatening if he had only 9 wounds.

It would still take at least 3 phases to kill him but suddenly he can be screened by any Ork unit.

But with 12 wounds, I'm really not seeing the issue. It no doubt makes him a bit of a pain but that resilience is virtually all he's got going for him.
- He's good in melee (as you'd expect from the Orkiest Ork to ever Ork)
- His movement speed is decidedly average and as it stands he can't even Advance and Charge.
- With BS5+ his shooting is negligible, relative to his cost (bear in mind that he's almost into Imperial Knight prices).
- Unlike, say, Rowboat Girlyman his auras aren't massive force-multipliers for the rest of his faction.

To be perfectly honest, Ghaz seems like one of the least offensive models to receive that particular rule.

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 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

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 vipoid wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds


Ironically, he'd actually be far more threatening if he had only 9 wounds.

It would still take at least 3 phases to kill him but suddenly he can be screened by any Ork unit.

But with 12 wounds, I'm really not seeing the issue. It no doubt makes him a bit of a pain but that resilience is virtually all he's got going for him.
- He's good in melee (as you'd expect from the Orkiest Ork to ever Ork)
- His movement speed is decidedly average and as it stands he can't even Advance and Charge.
- With BS5+ his shooting is negligible, relative to his cost (bear in mind that he's almost into Imperial Knight prices).
- Unlike, say, Rowboat Girlyman his auras aren't massive force-multipliers for the rest of his faction.

To be perfectly honest, Ghaz seems like one of the least offensive models to receive that particular rule.


You do realize you can get him to T8 with ard' as nails, right?
That means basically everything other than anti-tank is going to be wounding him on 5's and 6's only.

Think about that.
   
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Roberts84 wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds


Ironically, he'd actually be far more threatening if he had only 9 wounds.

It would still take at least 3 phases to kill him but suddenly he can be screened by any Ork unit.

But with 12 wounds, I'm really not seeing the issue. It no doubt makes him a bit of a pain but that resilience is virtually all he's got going for him.
- He's good in melee (as you'd expect from the Orkiest Ork to ever Ork)
- His movement speed is decidedly average and as it stands he can't even Advance and Charge.
- With BS5+ his shooting is negligible, relative to his cost (bear in mind that he's almost into Imperial Knight prices).
- Unlike, say, Rowboat Girlyman his auras aren't massive force-multipliers for the rest of his faction.

To be perfectly honest, Ghaz seems like one of the least offensive models to receive that particular rule.


You do realize you can get him to T8 with ard' as nails, right?
That means basically everything other than anti-tank is going to be wounding him on 5's and 6's only.

Think about that.
No you can't. He can only have the Goff warlord trait.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds


Ironically, he'd actually be far more threatening if he had only 9 wounds.

It would still take at least 3 phases to kill him but suddenly he can be screened by any Ork unit.

But with 12 wounds, I'm really not seeing the issue. It no doubt makes him a bit of a pain but that resilience is virtually all he's got going for him.
- He's good in melee (as you'd expect from the Orkiest Ork to ever Ork)
- His movement speed is decidedly average and as it stands he can't even Advance and Charge.
- With BS5+ his shooting is negligible, relative to his cost (bear in mind that he's almost into Imperial Knight prices).
- Unlike, say, Rowboat Girlyman his auras aren't massive force-multipliers for the rest of his faction.

To be perfectly honest, Ghaz seems like one of the least offensive models to receive that particular rule.


You do realize you can get him to T8 with ard' as nails, right?
That means basically everything other than anti-tank is going to be wounding him on 5's and 6's only.

Think about that.
No you can't. He can only have the Goff warlord trait.


Where is this specified? Because if he can be T8 I don't think whether or not he's OP is in doubt. Ard' as nails is a warlord trait. I can't see why he couldn't be given it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 01:37:41


 
   
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Unique Characters either have a set Warlord Trait (if their subfaction has a pool, such as Bobby G and Calgar) or may only take their subfaction Trait (as is the case with Ghaz).

There are exceptions (such as the Avatar of Khaine) but Ghaz is not one of them.

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Roberts84 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
This is compounded by the fact that because he's got a 4+ invuln and 12 wounds


Ironically, he'd actually be far more threatening if he had only 9 wounds.

It would still take at least 3 phases to kill him but suddenly he can be screened by any Ork unit.

But with 12 wounds, I'm really not seeing the issue. It no doubt makes him a bit of a pain but that resilience is virtually all he's got going for him.
- He's good in melee (as you'd expect from the Orkiest Ork to ever Ork)
- His movement speed is decidedly average and as it stands he can't even Advance and Charge.
- With BS5+ his shooting is negligible, relative to his cost (bear in mind that he's almost into Imperial Knight prices).
- Unlike, say, Rowboat Girlyman his auras aren't massive force-multipliers for the rest of his faction.

To be perfectly honest, Ghaz seems like one of the least offensive models to receive that particular rule.


You do realize you can get him to T8 with ard' as nails, right?
That means basically everything other than anti-tank is going to be wounding him on 5's and 6's only.

Think about that.
No you can't. He can only have the Goff warlord trait.


Where is this specified? Because if he can be T8 I don't think whether or not he's OP is in doubt.
Codex: Orks.
Even at Toughness 8 he's meh. You're probably shooting AT firepower at 'im anyway(or Plasma), but not enough to do much more than 4 damage.
   
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 JNAProductions wrote:
Unique Characters either have a set Warlord Trait (if their subfaction has a pool, such as Bobby G and Calgar) or may only take their subfaction Trait (as is the case with Ghaz).

There are exceptions (such as the Avatar of Khaine) but Ghaz is not one of them.


So you could in fact give him hard as nails and just swap out the Klan Kulture. Is this correct?
   
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Roberts84 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Unique Characters either have a set Warlord Trait (if their subfaction has a pool, such as Bobby G and Calgar) or may only take their subfaction Trait (as is the case with Ghaz).

There are exceptions (such as the Avatar of Khaine) but Ghaz is not one of them.


So you could in fact give him hard as nails and just swap out the Klan Kulture. Is this correct?
No. He's a Goff. That doesn't ever change.

Edit: Which is something else you missed. Either he's taken in a non-Goff detachment (in which case, he gains no subfaction benefits and literally the only model who uses his "Reroll melee hit rolls of 1" is him) or you take him in a Goff detachment... Which suck.

And Makari IS locked to Goffs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 01:43:07


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Why would him being T8 make a difference in terms of his OP-ness at T7?

As a side note, I definitely don't think he's OP. He's a big walking beatstick, that kind of already says enough. He doesn't really have 300 points worth of buff ability and doesn't have the right keywords either. His only 4 damage per phase thing is neat, but it only makes him a better beatstick, and he's still just a melee beatstick.

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I knew someone was gonna say Ghaz was OP and it's just as hilarious as I thought it would be. Yes, while you're shooting Ghaz, you ain't shooting other stuff (until you hit those 4 Wounds, of course). But, as mentioned, he's slow, has an unreliable charge, is terrible at range, and his buffs either affect only Infantry (meaning to optimize his buffs you'll take mostly Infantry and make Ghaz one of the few, or even the sole, target for all your opponent's anti-armor), or affect only Goffs (which is a mediocre Sub-Faction, at best).

Ghaz Pros:
He can hit like a truck.
He's really durable against some Factions.

Ghaz Cons:
He costs about 1/7th of your total points.
He's incredibly vulnerable to lists that don't focus on a single Phase.
He's not that fast, and gets slower as he gets hurt.
His ranged profile might as well not even exist.
If you Tellyport him (so he doesn't just get kited around the board), he only has a 50% chance to make his charge.
All of his buffs are suited for an army that makes him really easy to kill.
A chaff unit will shut him down, unless he has some back-up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 01:47:09


 
   
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Well regardless at T7 and under 300 points he's ridiculous. He's cheaper than a Leviathan Dreadnought, is massively harder to kill, will wreck your plans in every phase, grants rerolls, and D3 on morale passes. And in melee he has the weaponry to delete anything on the board.

Let nobody say the Leviathan dreadnought ever be legended henceforth, IMO.
   
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Roberts84 wrote:
Well regardless at T7 and under 300 points he's ridiculous. He's cheaper than a Leviathan Dreadnought, is massively harder to kill, will wreck your plans in every phase, grants rerolls, and D3 on morale passes. And in melee he has the weaponry to delete anything on the board.

Let nobody say the Leviathan dreadnought ever be legended henceforth, IMO.
He's cheaper than a Leviathan Dread, yes.

Let's compare some shooting, shall we?

20 shots at 24" BS2+ S7 AP-1 D2 (if I recall correctly-I've not ever run one, so I may be wrong)
12 shots at 36" BS5+ S5 AP-1 D1

So, Ghaz has better range... At a worse BS, number of shots, Strength, and Damage.

Where the Leviathan reaches out and absolutely MURDERS something T1, Ghaz... Sits in the Tellyporter or ambles forward 10.5".

Yeah. Ghaz sure is broken.

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I like how the measure of "this thing is OP" is the inability to delete it in a single phase. Not its killing potential. Not its ability to buff units. But only being able to take 4 Wounds a phase? Too strong, please nerf.
   
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 flandarz wrote:
I like how the measure of "this thing is OP" is the inability to delete it in a single phase. Not its killing potential. Not its ability to buff units. But only being able to take 4 Wounds a phase? Too strong, please nerf.
To be fair, I don't think that's good design. But that doesn't make Ghaz OP, just makes GW crappy.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
Roberts84 wrote:
Well regardless at T7 and under 300 points he's ridiculous. He's cheaper than a Leviathan Dreadnought, is massively harder to kill, will wreck your plans in every phase, grants rerolls, and D3 on morale passes. And in melee he has the weaponry to delete anything on the board.

Let nobody say the Leviathan dreadnought ever be legended henceforth, IMO.
He's cheaper than a Leviathan Dread, yes.

Let's compare some shooting, shall we?

20 shots at 24" BS2+ S7 AP-1 D2 (if I recall correctly-I've not ever run one, so I may be wrong)
12 shots at 36" BS5+ S5 AP-1 D1

So, Ghaz has better range... At a worse BS, number of shots, Strength, and Damage.

Where the Leviathan reaches out and absolutely MURDERS something T1, Ghaz... Sits in the Tellyporter or ambles forward 10.5".

Yeah. Ghaz sure is broken.


20 shots at the first values with dual storm cannons, which is what everybody takes.
The difference is that...well, you can kill a leviathan dreadnought turn 1 with even average rolls concentrated fire. Happens all the time especially against RG. The Leviathan is a good solid unit, but it's not pants-on-head slowed or anything, and it costs a LOT. You won't be clearing Ghaz turn 1. I surely doubt that, anyway--and if you do, you're going to have a really fun turn 2.
   
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In My Lab

 flandarz wrote:
I like how the measure of "this thing is OP" is the inability to delete it in a single phase. Not its killing potential. Not its ability to buff units. But only being able to take 4 Wounds a phase? Too strong, please nerf.
Reposting this. Because Flandarz has a point.

Not dying is useful. But if that's the ONLY thing you do? (And T1, that's the only thing Ghaz does.) Not worth it.

T2? He charges a screen. Yay. Unless you take him in an infantry-heavy list... In which case, he's the only target for the anti-tank weapons, in which case he gets an absolute max of three turns.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I like how the measure of "this thing is OP" is the inability to delete it in a single phase. Not its killing potential. Not its ability to buff units. But only being able to take 4 Wounds a phase? Too strong, please nerf.
Reposting this. Because Flandarz has a point.

Not dying is useful. But if that's the ONLY thing you do? (And T1, that's the only thing Ghaz does.) Not worth it.

T2? He charges a screen. Yay. Unless you take him in an infantry-heavy list... In which case, he's the only target for the anti-tank weapons, in which case he gets an absolute max of three turns.


There's not dying and there's being nigh-unkillable to the point that one needs to dedicate virtually all one's high AP High damage weaponry to remove it from play.This totally changes an opponent's tactics because of a single unit. In fact I'd take a potato with zero attacks with his special rules assuming my opponent was forced to clear it.

You might not think he's OP on balance, but that special rule has absolutely no business in this game, and I think you know that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 02:19:54


 
   
 
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