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Hi all, I have a question about the Primaris Project if anyone can help please

In the beginning how did Cawl get his test subjects? Did they volunteer from various Chapters?

Thanks

Azkallean wrote:
Hi all, I have a question about the Primaris Project if anyone can help please

In the beginning how did Cawl get his test subjects? Did they volunteer from various Chapters?

Thanks

Most likely a combination of volunteers, stolen, and simply just handed over on demand by the Legions.

Again, when Cawl was making his initial Primaris tests, the Marines were still in Legion form, I believe, or maybe just undergoing the transition between Legion and Chapter.

I don't know for sure. However, I would guess that they very initial recruits came from within the Sol System. Or where ever the Emperor collected his to create the very first legions. It makes as much sense as where the Emperor gathered his initial recruits for Space Marines right? I don't imagine that Cawl even after 10,000 years had more than a small legion of Primaris prepped when Guilliman ordered their use.

As for the Rubicon process, I would hazard a guess perhaps not all would be techmarines make it through training over the 10,000 years allowing Cawl to try experimentation on the process. I would like to think once revealed, the Rubicon process was much easier to get a larger pool of experimental subjects which allowed a quantum leap in reliability even before Calgar. It only improved from there.

But like I said, I don't know for sure. I try not to worry about the Primaris genesis stuff or any how would it actually work in 40k stuff. Going that deep in 40k almost always exposes how flawed setting is and not really worth getting too hung up on. Best not to know how the sausage is made kind of thinking.

apparently the first recruits where taken from the chapters recruitment pools.

Heresy. Chaos and lack of faith in the emperor.

How did it work with chapters like salamanders? I understand that with something like DA or ultramarines 1000 dudes could get lost, but when the entire chapter consists of under 1000 marines, how does one get the 1000 aspirants to start breeding the zygota?

I don't think Cawl ever stole a full 1000 Marines - at least not in one go.

In the Salamanders' case, he probably stole about a squad's worth of new recruits before they were fully inducted, and over the centuries after, just used his authority to claim more here and there.

More than likely, these would be been part of the geneseed tithe Chapters would have dispatched back to Terra.

I still think they would notice, they didn't have a full chapter of marines, and their gene seed was lost, so it is not like they had option to recruite more. In fact, if we went by animal survivial ratios, having 600-700 marines be made in to 2-3 marines each, they should have died out. But I guess it is w40k, and I am okey with that.

Cawl wasn't taking marines to make primaris, Guiiliman gave him the sangprimus portem so he had the geneseed of all 20 legions. The initial wave of primaris were all vat grown, it wasn't even discovered that basic astartes could become primaris until much later.

 Aftersong wrote:
The initial wave of primaris were all vat grown,

Honest question - where is that stated? It's mentioned in a few books that "Decimus Felix is one of the earliest successful Primaris Space Marines created by Archdominus Cawl, having been taken as an aspirant from Laphis shortly after the Horus Heresy had ended" (copied from Lexicanum) and in 'Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work' he remembers his childhood on Laphis and his brother, for example.

 Aftersong wrote:
Cawl wasn't taking marines to make primaris, Guiiliman gave him the sangprimus portem so he had the geneseed of all 20 legions. The initial wave of primaris were all vat grown, it wasn't even discovered that basic astartes could become primaris until much later.

Cawl did not use Astartes nor were they vat-grown. They were regular human children that met predefined genetic criteria, just like normal recruitment. The differences are in their development and training, which was in weird bursts going in and out of stasis over hundreds of years.

This led to the Awakened Primaris being less tactically flexible and more tied to one role than either Firstborn or Indoctrinated Primaris. This is all from a mix of The Great Work, Plague War, and the second codex: Space Marines 8th edition.

Yeah, as said above, the initial batches of Primaris weren't vat-born (at least, not canonically). They were aspirants taken just like normal recruits would have been, and just given different treatment. They weren't clones, they weren't vat-born, they were normal recruits given Primaris enhancements.

jareddm wrote:

 Aftersong wrote:
Cawl wasn't taking marines to make primaris, Guiiliman gave him the sangprimus portem so he had the geneseed of all 20 legions. The initial wave of primaris were all vat grown, it wasn't even discovered that basic astartes could become primaris until much later.

Cawl did not use Astartes nor were they vat-grown. They were regular human children that met predefined genetic criteria, just like normal recruitment. The differences are in their development and training, which was in weird bursts going in and out of stasis over hundreds of years.

This led to the Awakened Primaris being less tactically flexible and more tied to one role than either Firstborn or Indoctrinated Primaris. This is all from a mix of The Great Work, Plague War, and the second codex: Space Marines 8th edition.

The tactical inflexibilty is an artificial problem. I hate how all primaris units have the same weapon. Its extremley unrealistic and illogical in 40k. In 30k, the Legions had the number to pull it off, but in 40k, where single squads are often deployed on ops it just doesnt make sense.

123ply wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 Aftersong wrote:
Cawl wasn't taking marines to make primaris, Guiiliman gave him the sangprimus portem so he had the geneseed of all 20 legions. The initial wave of primaris were all vat grown, it wasn't even discovered that basic astartes could become primaris until much later.

Cawl did not use Astartes nor were they vat-grown. They were regular human children that met predefined genetic criteria, just like normal recruitment. The differences are in their development and training, which was in weird bursts going in and out of stasis over hundreds of years.

This led to the Awakened Primaris being less tactically flexible and more tied to one role than either Firstborn or Indoctrinated Primaris. This is all from a mix of The Great Work, Plague War, and the second codex: Space Marines 8th edition.

The tactical inflexibilty is an artificial problem. I hate how all primaris units have the same weapon. Its extremley unrealistic and illogical in 40k. In 30k, the Legions had the number to pull it off, but in 40k, where single squads are often deployed on ops it just doesnt make sense.

The tactical inflexibility that jareddm refers to isn't a weaponry thing. It's that squads were ONLY capable and trained of fulfilling single tasks. Awakened Primaris Intercessors ONLY fought as Intercessor Squads, Hellblasters only as Hellblaster Squads, etc.

The modern Indoctrinated Primaris are more than capable of fulfilling multiple roles within the Chapter (being able to fight as an Intercessor, Hellblaster, Repulsor pilot, Eliminator, etc etc).

Exactly. It was specifically the Awakened who suffered due to the different training and growth methods Cawl used. It is not a problem for later Primaris, who took up their own chapter's methods.