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Hi,

please tell me how to optimize this list.
I play my Renegades and Heretics as an AM army, hope you don´t mind. I also know that Power Axes are now "Legend", but my opponents are ok with that. I regulary use my converted Rough Riders
I´m no tournament player, but my gaming group plays "good" army lists. "Good" means tough.
Most of the time I play against: Tyranids, Admech, Astra Militarum, CSM, Death Guard and Blood Angels.

Army Overview, 1250pts 18CPS (18 - 4 Pregame CPs)

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)
Regimental Doctrine: Cadia
Specialist Detachment: Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company [-1CP]

HQ:
Company Commander (Boltgun + Poweraxe) 36pts
Company Commander (Boltgun) 31pts

Troops:
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts

Elites:
Master of Ordnance 30pts
Master of Ordnance 30pts
Uses stratagem Focused Bombardment and can get full rerolls to hit via cadian infantry command
Sits back and secures an objective and can´t be targeted as an character

Heavy:
Basilisk (Heavy Bolter + Heavy Stubber) Support Ace Full Payload 110 pts -1 CP
Uses stratagem Pounding Barrage


Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)
Regimental Doctrine: Cadia
Specialist Detachment: Emperor's Fist Tank Company [-1CP]

HQ:
Tank Commander (Battle Cannon, Heavy stubber, Hunter-killer missile, Lascannon, 2x Plasma cannon) 207pts
Tank Commander (Hammer of Sunderance, Heavy stubber, Hunter-killer missile, Lascannon, Tank Ace Warlord Trait - Up-Armoured) 187pts -1 CP
Uses stratagem Hail of Fire and can command himself

Troops:
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts

Elites:
Astropath (Laspistol) 15pts
Astropath (Laspistol) 15pts
Use Psychic Barrier and Nightshroud to protect the Tank Commanders

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)
Regimental Doctrine: Militarum Tempestus - 43rd Iotan Dragons, Astra Millitarum

HQ:
Lord Commissar (Powerfist + Boltgun) 39pts
Tempestor Prime (Power Axe + Emperor´s Fury) 45pts

Troops:
Militarum Tempestus Scions (5x Hot-shot Lasgun, 4x Plasma Gun, 1x Plasma Pistol) 119pts
Militarum Tempestus Scions (2x Hot-shot Lasgun, 2x Hot-shot Volley Gun, 1x Hot-shot Laspistol) 49pts
Militarum Tempestus Scions (2x Hot-shot Lasgun, 2x Hot-shot Volley Gun, 1x Hot-shot Laspistol) 49pts
Small Squads to secure objectives and harass enemy backfieldforces
Plasma Squad and Prime to kill a primary target, if necessary Prime gets WT Old Grudges via stratagem Progeny of Conflict


Tank Commanders, Lord Commissar and Astropaths


Infantry and Company Commander


Infantry and Company Commander


Tempestus Scions and Prime


Basilisk and Masters of Ordnance

Sorry for my English

I like this list a lot. I try to make my own standardized imperial gaurd cadian squad as a grenade launcher + a missle launcher because that can use the rerolls out to longer range, but the plasm and bolter is also a very good and efficient combination. So I approve!

You gave up a warlord to make a tank ace -- but you still have to show which guy your warlord is designated, so the opponent can try to score by killing him. Its probably best not to be a tank commander, they can't hide.

You have 2 master of ordinance for 60 points of cost, which will each contribute ONLY one attack -- and its not both in one turn, if I remember right. I would probably give each infantry squad its own heavy weapon (missle) rather than these guys, but I can see the use for them and the strategem, and they can sit on objectives behind character protection in the back even if they don't help cadian artillery at all. Still, this feels like its something a different army wanted to bring!

Your scions are solid with the extra range.

My own army is mostly scions and a few cadians, and I also always end up with a warlord trait of old grudges on one of my tempestors. I will say its very useful to have a second tempestor though, if you have to put old grudges down for the artillery (you do fire 6 + 2(best of 2d6) heavy shots a round from the backfield. That way, the warlord trait can be used to direct the guns, but the frontline tempester can issue orders like frfsrf or elimination protocol to the scions when they drop. I use one for that role who is a normal tempester with the laurels of command, so that he has a 50 percent chance of issuing both a frfsrf and a second order -- which can make the front squad's 37 shots very, very effective against enemy screens, or it can be turned to use with plasma shooters to give them both a reroll of 1's AND elimination protocols. This greatly enhances a lot of units, while one single commisar isn't goint to greatly alter the math of your army.
As anti-infantry units, scopms really come into their own then they can up the power on their short range hotshots +1S and then first rank fire, second rank fire. Iotan Dragon scions can do that from outside 9 inches, and turns a 5 man scion group or two into a very serious threat to a lighter gaurded backfield.
If you have a way to do it, I would recommend also clumping the points you spend so that one squad is all hotshotlasguns, and the other is a pair of plasm guns and a plasma pistol. That gives you a little extra power to kill one big thing -- and a cheaper unit to sacrifice in a position where you know it will only hold an objective for a turn and has no chance to kill anything.
I run my a battalion of iotan gorgonnes as my second battalion -- one is a 10 man squad with 9 hslg and 1 plasma pistol, so that a nearby tempestor can give them all frfsrf. the other two have anti-tank weapons on them to support the command squads in "clearing the board". Its been a good compromise. (I also have 5 other squads of scions, some have the volleyguns, I am not saying those are bad at all, they are really good, but it seems to be a useful flexibility to have a unit that is "cheaper body price" to throw in against screens. Your scions can shoot at 9 inches just as mine can at 6 inches, its a good mix you have. Consdier it my own personal style comment only!

I honestly had not thought much about the master of ordinance as a cheap extra basilisk, but if you have a plan to put old grudges in the backfield anyway, its really a good idea.

Congratulations! You changed my army mix today, and I will probably rotate a M.o.O in between my basilisk and manticore. (My army is a 2000 point one. I confess if it were 1250 points, it would be VERY similar to yours.)

Or, to summarize in german .. (its only polite) .. (I realize the ettiquite here is all english, but it is important that we support each other in these times of crisis)

Ich kann nuer sagen, die Armee, die sie hergestellt haben, mag' ich sehr. Ich finde es fehlt nur der Tempestor Prime Nummer Zwo, wer sich nach vorne einsetzen kann, um die Fallshirmjager benuftig zu befehlen. Der mit "old grudges" ist zum starkesten als Hilfsarbeiter fuer Basilisk und die MoO-en benutzt.

And I apologize for my german, it has been many years since I have spoken or written any.

@Dukeofstuff

Thanks a lot for your input.
I will change my list like you suggested. I gonna take a second Prime with "Old Grudges" via stratagem instead of the Lord Commissar.

I overlooked that I can trade a "Tank Ace" for a Warlord Trait and the Warlord is not mandatory the chosen vehicle (Tank Commander).
I´m thinking about taking Lord Castellan Creed, making him my Warlord. I exchange the Warlord trait for the Tank Ace.
I get a Company Commander (with Power Sword) with 3x Voice of Command ability at 12“ and 2 Command points and a useful Tank Ace!
Kind of a steal, what do you think? Is it legal?

Updated version. Changes are marked green.

1250pts, 15 CPs (18 - 5 + 2)

Lord Commissar changed to a Temepstor Prime with additional Warlord trait "old Grudges".
Company Commander changed to Lord Castellan Creed. This gives me
- 2 more CPs
- 1 more order
- + 6" order range
I had to remove 3 Plasma Guns and the second Tempestor is now armed with a Power Axe instead of the former Lord Commissars Power fist


Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)
Regimental Doctrine: Cadia
Specialist Detachment: Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company -1 CP

HQ:
Lord Castellan Creed 55pts +2 CP Warlord (No Warlord Trait -> Tank Ace)
Company Commander (Boltgun) 31pts

Troops:
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun + Plasmagun) 48pts

Elites:
Master of Ordnance 30pts
Master of Ordnance 30pts

Heavy:
Basilisk (Heavy Bolter + Heavy Stubber) Support Ace Full Payload 110 pts -1 CP


Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)
Regimental Doctrine: Cadia
Specialist Detachment: Emperor's Fist Tank Company -1 CP

HQ:
Tank Commander (Battle Cannon, Heavy stubber, Hunter-killer missile, Lascannon, 2x Plasma cannon) 207pts
Tank Commander (Hammer of Sunderance, Heavy stubber, Hunter-killer missile, Lascannon, Tank Ace - Up-Armoured via "Creed´s WL" 187pts -1 CP


Troops:
Infantry Squad (Boltgun) 41pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun) 41pts
Infantry Squad (Boltgun) 41pts

Elites:
Astropath (Laspistol) 15pts
Astropath (Laspistol) 15pts


Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)
Regimental Doctrine: Militarum Tempestus - 43rd Iotan Dragons, Astra Millitarum

HQ:
Tempestor Prime (Power Axe + Bolt Pistol + Warlord trait Old Grudges via stratagem Progeny of Conflict) 41pts -1 CP
Tempestor Prime (Power Axe + Emperor´s Fury) 45pts

Troops:
Militarum Tempestus Scions (5x Hot-shot Lasgun, 4x Plasma Gun, 1x Plasma Pistol) 119pts
Militarum Tempestus Scions (2x Hot-shot Lasgun, 2x Hot-shot Volley Gun, 1x Hot-shot Laspistol) 49pts
Militarum Tempestus Scions (2x Hot-shot Lasgun, 2x Hot-shot Volley Gun, 1x Hot-shot Laspistol) 49pts

Wonderful! 5 orders is probably enough for the cadians, especially because you can always spend 1 cp to get a sixth.
This looks like a really good army!

I converted the minis this evening (we play WYSIWYG), so my 1250pts army is finished.

Thanks for the advice!


Company Commander, Lord Castellan Creed, 2x Astropath


2x Tank Commander


Basilisk, 2x Master of Ordnance


2x Tempestor Prime, 3x Scion Squad


3x Infantry Squad with Bolter & Plasma


3x Infantry Squad with Bolter