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Greetings Marshals,

My question is can we use combine squads on death korp infantry squads and concentrated fire on death korp heavy weapons squads?

I assume you are talking about the Astra Militarum strat "Consolidate Squads" (I can not find combine squads but I only skimmed the book).

If that is the case, if it is a use non regiment specific stratagems, then you can use it.

Page 6 of the FAQ has more info.

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or
Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regimentspecific rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits,
etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?
A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and
Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index:
Forces of the Astra Militarum

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/imperial_armour_index_forces_of_the_astra_militarum-1.pdf

 DeathReaper wrote:
I assume you are talking about the Astra Militarum strat "Consolidate Squads" (I can not find combine squads but I only skimmed the book).

If that is the case, if it is a use non regiment specific stratagems, then you can use it.

Page 6 of the FAQ has more info.

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or
Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regimentspecific rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits,
etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?
A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and
Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index:
Forces of the Astra Militarum

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/imperial_armour_index_forces_of_the_astra_militarum-1.pdf

I they are not regiment specific BUT they target and infantry squad (note: not infantry unit) but the death korps infantry keyword is "death korps infantry squad" as a single keyword. Like wise with concentrated fire targets "heavy weapon teams" but can it target "Death Korps heavy weapon teams"

From the 'Consolidate Squads' stratagem on page 134 of Codex Astra Militarum:

Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Choose an Infantry Squad (pg 93) from your army that is within 2" of another of your Infantry Squads from the same <REGIMENT>..

Since it is not written in keyword font (i.e., INFANTRY SQUAD) it is referring to a unit whose datasheet has the name 'Infantry Squad'. The reference to the page that the 'Infantry Squad' unit is on is just a redundancy and confirms that it only applies to the 'Infantry Squad' datasheet.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I assume you are talking about the Astra Militarum strat "Consolidate Squads" (I can not find combine squads but I only skimmed the book).

If that is the case, if it is a use non regiment specific stratagems, then you can use it.

Page 6 of the FAQ has more info.

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or
Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regimentspecific rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits,
etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?
A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and
Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index:
Forces of the Astra Militarum

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/imperial_armour_index_forces_of_the_astra_militarum-1.pdf

I they are not regiment specific BUT they target and infantry squad (note: not infantry unit) but the death korps infantry keyword is "death korps infantry squad" as a single keyword. Like wise with concentrated fire targets "heavy weapon teams" but can it target "Death Korps heavy weapon teams"

A HEAVY WEAPONS SQUAD is not the same as DEATH KORPS HEAVY WEAPONS SQUAD.

As stated, you can only use the stratagem on codex Infantry Squads.

Outside of the most glorious pedantry, you’d be fine to use the Stratagems in the real world. The FW Indexes are notoriously badly written, and trying to apply usual rules standards just results in unplayable gaps and unintended consequences. If you’re using the DKoK list and your opponent is insisting you can’t use Stratagems you’re clearly intended to be able to because FW ballsed up the book in the lunch break they had to write it then eh... that’s... a choice they made I guess. No, this isn’t saying “no one plays by the rules”. Yes, it is saying “make some leeway for the atrocious FW rules for the sake of two people actually enjoying the game.”

HIWPI is to allow all non-Regiment-specific Strats to work as if the Keywords lined up properly, else you’ve a non-functional army. (Note those massive HIWPI letters before flaming me)

If someone decides to play DKOK, he has to use their rules. If i play cadians or catachans i cannot use DKOK rules either. DKOK HWT is 15 pts and hits on 3s, the AM HWT is 18 pts. and hits on 4s. DKOK already has an advantage here. Maybe now you understand why DKOK cant use certain rules from AM.

 p5freak wrote:
If someone decides to play DKOK, he has to use their rules. If i play cadians or catachans i cannot use DKOK rules either. DKOK HWT is 15 pts and hits on 3s, the AM HWT is 18 pts. and hits on 4s. DKOK already has an advantage here. Maybe now you understand why DKOK cant use certain rules from AM.

Exactly. You don't get to try and claim "I can use Space Marine detachment traits ans stratagems on my Chaos Space Marines" just because some of the words match.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If someone decides to play DKOK, he has to use their rules. If i play cadians or catachans i cannot use DKOK rules either. DKOK HWT is 15 pts and hits on 3s, the AM HWT is 18 pts. and hits on 4s. DKOK already has an advantage here. Maybe now you understand why DKOK cant use certain rules from AM.

Exactly. You don't get to try and claim "I can use Space Marine detachment traits ans stratagems on my Chaos Space Marines" just because some of the words match.

Right, if i ever play against Johnny i will use veterans of the long war on my SM, because they SPACE MARINES. He surely wouldnt mind that they miss CHAOS.

Note that it was announced that the Forge World Indexes are being replaced in the near future with new books that will have updated rules for the Forge World units and armies.

The situation is really more like the one with Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels vs codex Space Marines than it is Space Marines vs Chaos Space Marines. That said, they still get their own things instead of referring to Codex: Adeptus Astartes.

Given that there was a FAQ question specifically mentioning Stratagems with an answer stating DKoK can't use the Codex stratagems and refer you to Imperial Armour – Index:
Forces of the Astra Militarum instead (thanks for posting the relevant FAQ answer, p5freak), I would take that as intent as well as RAW for this. You can ask your opponent if he doesn't mind you using Codex Astra Militarum non-regiment-specific stratagems, but don't necessarily expect him to agree with that. (It never hurts to ask, but realize that this is really making a house rule in order to do it.) Edit: Unless IA - Forces of the AM tells you to use the non-regiment specific ones, then they already had it covered. But then there wouldn't have been a need for the question.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
Note that it was announced that the Forge World Indexes are being replaced in the hear future with new ooks that will have updated rules for the Forge World units and armies.

Good point. Maybe they'll have fixed it....with an equal likelikhood of Orks getting Looted Drop Pods. (Maybe they'll have made all-new mistakes that need fixing.)

p5freak wrote:If someone decides to play DKOK, he has to use their rules. If i play cadians or catachans i cannot use DKOK rules either. DKOK HWT is 15 pts and hits on 3s, the AM HWT is 18 pts. and hits on 4s. DKOK already has an advantage here. Maybe now you understand why DKOK cant use certain rules from AM.

DKoK hit on 3s in melee. In shooting they're the same as codex teams, except that they don't get Take Aim or get any regimental bonus whatsoever to their shooting ability.

The reason DKoK can't use certain rules from AM is simply that the FW indices are incredibly sloppily written, and the Psychic Awakening stratagems were designed in GW's usual style of pretending Forge World doesn't exist. I'm with JohnnyHell on this; there is no intent-based justification for denying DKoK the stratagems, even if it is RAW.

Comparing it to CSM vs SM is a complete false equivalence and frankly rather dumb. CSM aren't a variant SM list that explicitly uses SM stratagems and special rules. It's not even like the successor chapters, where they get their own sets of stratagems. You're simply told to use AM stratagems, relics, and WLTs for DKoK.

Ghaz wrote:Note that it was announced that the Forge World Indexes are being replaced in the near future with new books that will have updated rules for the Forge World units and armies.

Which is done by the GW rules team, and we all know how "well" they do rules.

catbarf wrote:

p5freak wrote:If someone decides to play DKOK, he has to use their rules. If i play cadians or catachans i cannot use DKOK rules either. DKOK HWT is 15 pts and hits on 3s, the AM HWT is 18 pts. and hits on 4s. DKOK already has an advantage here. Maybe now you understand why DKOK cant use certain rules from AM.

DKoK hit on 3s in melee. In shooting they're the same as codex teams, except that they don't get Take Aim or get any regimental bonus whatsoever to their shooting ability.

Yes, in melee. Still an advantage over AM. No one forces anyone to play DKOK, if you decide to do so you have to live with their restrictions right now. We have to wait and see what the new rewritten indexes will bring along.

 p5freak wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Note that it was announced that the Forge World Indexes are being replaced in the near future with new books that will have updated rules for the Forge World units and armies.

Which is done by the GW rules team, and we all know how "well" they do rules.

Yes, and that is 'better than Forge World does rules'...

 Ghaz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Note that it was announced that the Forge World Indexes are being replaced in the near future with new books that will have updated rules for the Forge World units and armies.

Which is done by the GW rules team, and we all know how "well" they do rules.

Yes, and that is 'better than Forge World does rules'...

Anything is better than fw rules from my experience

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Note that it was announced that the Forge World Indexes are being replaced in the near future with new books that will have updated rules for the Forge World units and armies.

Which is done by the GW rules team, and we all know how "well" they do rules.

Yes, and that is 'better than Forge World does rules'...

Anything is better than fw rules from my experience

Right, GW rules team reworking FW indexes means it will go from 1/10 to 2/10, or 3/10 at best.