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I now have a "wing" of three Vypers I am going to give some time to on my tables. I like the speed and the cost right now for my fast slot (I normally have a ton of warp spiders there, and do not have any bikers). Just looking for thoughts on the weapon options. (Not looking for all the reasons I should never use this unit, that seems another thread)
I have been happy with my walkers and double star cannons, but with only one heavy choice, not sure that goes for the vyper.
Here are my feelings:
Scatter laser: Complete waste of points, even though it is cheap. The 2 point twin catapult is better (yeah range, I know, but the vypers movement makes up for that about 90% of the time)
"Shuriken Cannon: Decent with it's strength, and adds range (going this way probably means switching both guns?). Points seem high.
Star cannon: Always the best weapon from this list for cost, but only 2 shots at -1 because probably moving hurts for this vehicle.
Bright lance: If I'm going with this, I am sitting still and at the back line. So, some anti-vehicle at a cost. Not sure this is point efficient at all.
Forgot the Missile Launcher: Seems iffy for the same reason the bright lance is, but I guess the frag missile gives some (very weak) versatility.

I'd go double shuriken cannons most of the time, still under ten points per wound and with six strength six shots that hit on threes, with a 2+ in cover they're tougher than they might appear.

I run Vypers quite a lot, and I'd recommend running them as three separate units, each with bright lance and shuricannon, of course with expert crafters CW trait. They like masters of concealment too, as it takes them to 2+ at range. Treat them as snipers that can, if necessary, zoom forward to grab objectives or make some desperate plays.

 kingheff wrote:
I'd go double shuriken cannons most of the time, still under ten points per wound and with six strength six shots that hit on threes, with a 2+ in cover they're tougher than they might appear.

Seconded.
To improve their shooting, I'd think about Biel-Tan to reroll 1's to hit.
Heavy weapons have the downside that they hit at 4+ on the move and its tactically worth moving them around.

I think masterful shots and masters of concealment work best so they can go anywhere and still get a 2+ save but your mileage may vary.

I've lost track of where the rules come from:
"masterful shots and masters of concealment"
Are these from the campaign books, CA, or somewhere else?

 Skinnereal wrote:
I've lost track of where the rules come from:
"masterful shots and masters of concealment"
Are these from the campaign books, CA, or somewhere else?

They're from Phoenix Rising.

Edit: Remember when 8th was going to be a simple edition where you didn't need loads of documents to play?

Ta. I thought I'd ready about something like that.
I'll keep avoiding them for now then.
Exarch powers in the codex would have been nice.

Masterful shots gives units ignore cover with shooting attacks and masters of concealment gives units a cover save as long as your unit is more than 12" away, for references sake.

If you don’t want to use the extra rules, Saim Hann Vypers can move and shoot heavies without the penalty.

I find myself going double ShuCan on them when I include my pair in a list. Some of that is just the way I tend to buld. I typically go mechanized, with Falcons and a WS, with a CHE flying cover. So I have a lot of pulse lasers and brightlances kicking around already. What I often need is more anti infantry firepower to kill key units. The Vypers have the speed, so even with the 24” range, they can get the fire on the target I need. I’ve always been impressed with the dakka they put out for their points.

IMHO, if you want the long range guns to sit and snipe, War Walkers are probably a better bet. You are paying for the speed of the Vyper, might as well take guns that mesh with it.

I just can't get behind pure shuricannon loadouts. SM meta was still the case before lockdown, and a shurivyper expects to do 1.6 damage against a marine. It's just not a weapon that's worth anywhere near 10pts. I always want starcannons in every slot that can take them instead.

 grouchoben wrote:
I just can't get behind pure shuricannon loadouts. SM meta was still the case before lockdown, and a shurivyper expects to do 1.6 damage against a marine. It's just not a weapon that's worth anywhere near 10pts. I always want starcannons in every slot that can take them instead.

But for star cannons I think you're better off with war walkers, with walkers you can double up with the star cannons, with vypers you only get one plus either the shuriken cannon or twin cats, both of which lack the range of the star cannon and make it more likely for them to move thus suffering the move penalty unless saim Han.

 kingheff wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
I just can't get behind pure shuricannon loadouts. SM meta was still the case before lockdown, and a shurivyper expects to do 1.6 damage against a marine. It's just not a weapon that's worth anywhere near 10pts. I always want starcannons in every slot that can take them instead.

But for star cannons I think you're better off with war walkers, with walkers you can double up with the star cannons, with vypers you only get one plus either the shuriken cannon or twin cats, both of which lack the range of the star cannon and make it more likely for them to move thus suffering the move penalty unless saim Han.

Seconded.
Starcannons more suitable for Warwalkers which can be turned into Marine (Intercessor) hunters with their D2 shots.

Thanks guys. Good points. I am pretty much on the Starcannons for War Walkers bandwagon myself. Which means sit back and snipe with a bright lance, or run about with more mid-range shooting from cannons. I run enough infantry that anti-infantry isn't my need. Think I'll run one of each for a game or two and see what happens. I really wish GW had given at least one thing in the entire line that gives +1 to wound with shuriken weapons. Guess having them be ap-3 1/3 of the time was too powerful. Course, it would make this choice easier.

As a note, I've been running the cover save trait (at over 12").
I usually run a heavy aspect host, but trying a spirithost now so other Trait is their re-roll 1's to wound. Trying the Vypers for some speed instead of my warp spiders.

I'll third that opinion. Starcannons belong on war walkers and BL's natural home for me is on single vypers.

I'm running mastefull shots and expert crafters for ref.

Yeah that's the loadout I use: BL & cannon/catapult, with crafters and concealment.

I guess i wasn't very clear, apologies: I was just saying that shuricannons are a bit trash. Assuming expert crafters on the vyper, its damage with a single star cannon, even when forced to move, vs a marine, is about the same as it would be with 2 shuricannons. I was saying even a single star cannon is a better, cheaper option with better range than double shuricannons.

(But I'd much rather run it BL.)

I've tried vypers off and on this edition. I really like what Expert Crafters does for them. The salamander-style rerolls means that they can hit pretty reliably even after moving. They're cheap enough that your opponent won't love the idea of shooting anti-tank at them instead of your heavier vehicles, but they're durable enough that bolters aren't a huge threat to them. Especially if you take Masters of Concealment too.

I know Expert Crafters + Masters of Concealment is pretty basic these days, but that combo really does make a lot of our red-headed step units work reasonably well.