Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh? If not, do you think it could happen? While the majority of Eldar would not do so, I wouldn't be surprised if some Drukhari or particularly ruthless corsairs were willing to do so. Basically the entire post-Fall Eldar society revolves around staying out of Slaanesh's grasp, and help of any kind is scarce in the 42nd millennium. Followers of Khorne would be a natural 'ally,' as the two gods are arch-rivals. I could see a particularly desperate group of Eldar making a deal with Kharn, Angron or some greater daemon with service in exchange for protection. This, of course, would probably not end well, but a desperate, failing craftworld, some Drukhari who couldn't get enough victims to torture, or some isolate corsairs running out of supplies might be willing to strike a deal with some bloody-minded individuals to try to escape eternal rape.

Specifically *against* Slaanesh? Probably not in the way you're implying. For one thing, chaos gods are too big and abstract to really... campaign against in a conventional way. If there's a very short-term opportunity to be had, the aeldari would totally take advantage of it, but a long-term teamup probably isn't viable, and direct dialogue probably isn't the best way to make that "teamup" happen.

Like, two warbands are vying for dominance in a sector. If the slaaneshi chaos lord wins, he's going to take his forces craftworld hunting. If the khornate guy wins, he's going to chop up some humans and leave the craftworlders alone. So in this case, some craftworlders might send rangers to snipe the slaaneshi guy plant information about the slaaneshi guy's plans so that the khornate guy has an advantage. But straight up calling the khornate guy on the phone and asking about a joint venture? That has a good chance of resulting in the bonkers murder man attacking you just because, AND his suspicion of you might actually make him less likely to use the information you're giving him. Plus, you'd have to worry about getting some of that gross chaos corruption on you. Yuck.

That said...
* There are probably exceptions. I could see some aeldari pointing an Ahriman type against some slaaneshi forces if they could convince him the slaaneshi guys had a cool scroll or something.

* Drukhari (and maybe corsairs?) have been known to work for chaos forces as partners/mercenaries. See: the Dragon Warrior/Drukhari teamup in the Salamanders Omnibus.
* A solitaire fought a bloodthirster and lost so that the symbolic defeat of Slaanesh would prevent a slaaneshi chaos incursion if that counts. XD

I remember chaos eldar in the early days of 40k. Pretty sure they were in the slaves to darkness book, for example.
I think that may be old and outdated lore now though.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh? If not, do you think it could happen? While the majority of Eldar would not do so, I wouldn't be surprised if some Drukhari or particularly ruthless corsairs were willing to do so. Basically the entire post-Fall Eldar society revolves around staying out of Slaanesh's grasp, and help of any kind is scarce in the 42nd millennium. Followers of Khorne would be a natural 'ally,' as the two gods are arch-rivals. I could see a particularly desperate group of Eldar making a deal with Kharn, Angron or some greater daemon with service in exchange for protection. This, of course, would probably not end well, but a desperate, failing craftworld, some Drukhari who couldn't get enough victims to torture, or some isolate corsairs running out of supplies might be willing to strike a deal with some bloody-minded individuals to try to escape eternal rape.

While Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals, they're still both facets of Chaos, inherently and fundamentally linked, and Slaanesh has no trouble finding expression and drawing strength from bloodletting and battle.

I'm not aware of any such instances in the fluff of Eldar allying with Khornate (or any chaos) elements (aside from fully fledged Rogue Trader era Chaos eldar), such a thing could possibly come to pass if GW wanted to write it, but would probably just hasten whatever terrible end they were fearing anyway.

 kingheff wrote:
I remember chaos eldar in the early days of 40k. Pretty sure they were in the slaves to darkness book, for example.
I think that may be old and outdated lore now though.

I think it falls under the heading of "lore which hasn't been revisited, but also hasn't been explicitly contradicted yet"

 Vaktathi wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh? If not, do you think it could happen? While the majority of Eldar would not do so, I wouldn't be surprised if some Drukhari or particularly ruthless corsairs were willing to do so. Basically the entire post-Fall Eldar society revolves around staying out of Slaanesh's grasp, and help of any kind is scarce in the 42nd millennium. Followers of Khorne would be a natural 'ally,' as the two gods are arch-rivals. I could see a particularly desperate group of Eldar making a deal with Kharn, Angron or some greater daemon with service in exchange for protection. This, of course, would probably not end well, but a desperate, failing craftworld, some Drukhari who couldn't get enough victims to torture, or some isolate corsairs running out of supplies might be willing to strike a deal with some bloody-minded individuals to try to escape eternal rape.

While Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals, they're still both facets of Chaos, inherently and fundamentally linked, and Slaanesh has no trouble finding expression and drawing strength from bloodletting and battle.

I'm not aware of any such instances in the fluff of Eldar allying with Khornate (or any chaos) elements (aside from fully fledged Rogue Trader era Chaos eldar), such a thing could possibly come to pass if GW wanted to write it, but would probably just hasten whatever terrible end they were fearing anyway.

Iracundus wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh? If not, do you think it could happen? While the majority of Eldar would not do so, I wouldn't be surprised if some Drukhari or particularly ruthless corsairs were willing to do so. Basically the entire post-Fall Eldar society revolves around staying out of Slaanesh's grasp, and help of any kind is scarce in the 42nd millennium. Followers of Khorne would be a natural 'ally,' as the two gods are arch-rivals. I could see a particularly desperate group of Eldar making a deal with Kharn, Angron or some greater daemon with service in exchange for protection. This, of course, would probably not end well, but a desperate, failing craftworld, some Drukhari who couldn't get enough victims to torture, or some isolate corsairs running out of supplies might be willing to strike a deal with some bloody-minded individuals to try to escape eternal rape.

While Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals, they're still both facets of Chaos, inherently and fundamentally linked, and Slaanesh has no trouble finding expression and drawing strength from bloodletting and battle.

I'm not aware of any such instances in the fluff of Eldar allying with Khornate (or any chaos) elements (aside from fully fledged Rogue Trader era Chaos eldar), such a thing could possibly come to pass if GW wanted to write it, but would probably just hasten whatever terrible end they were fearing anyway.

Spoiler:

In the Dark Eldar trilogy novels, there is a Craftworld character that turns out to have been possessed or working willingly with a daemon of Tzeentch. In one of the previous Chaos codices from several editions ago, there is mention of how the intrigues and oracular abilities of the Farseers can attract the attention of Tzeentch.

I can definitely see a desperate Farseer choosing to accept the aid of Tzeentch in order to keep their people safe and thwart Slaanesh. It might even work for awhile, until Tzeentch sees fit to discard them.

That would definitely make a more compelling case than Khorne I think, at least in any outright knowing way.

Whilst Eldar specifically fear Slaanesh who preys specifically upon their souls; they generally hate and loath all of chaos itself. Slaanesh is but one part of the Warp that is devouring their souls; one part that offers them eternal torment upon death unless they are saved within a soulstone


I doubt any sane Eldar would ever ally with the forces of Chaos. They'd be more likely to ally with Necrons.

That said I'm sure there are likely corrupted insane Eldar who are twisted to Chaos.

Overread wrote:
That said I'm sure there are likely corrupted insane Eldar who are twisted to Chaos.

There... are, but it seems like simply being insane might not be enough. Slaanesh doesn't seem to like waiting long to nom on an eldar soul, and incautious exposure to the warp seems to be a real threat to eldar. Like, wraithguard guns and D-cannons make it possible to play peekaboo with Slaanesh, and the eldar treat that as not entirely safe. What I'm trying to say is that if an eldar started drawing magic circles in virgin's blood and doing the generic chaos undivided stuff that human cultists do, it seems like they'd have a good chance of simply being rapidly devoured by Slaanesh.

To my mind, a "chaos eldar" would need to be defined by whatever prevents Slaanesh from insta-nomming them. Being marked by another chaos god strikes me as the most likely route. And my interpretation is that being marked by a chaos god means being mentally and/or metaphorically in-tune with their gimmick. So a chaos eldar protected by Tzeentch would have to be Tzeentchy is some fashion; magic/plotting obsession, big on trickery, physically transformed to be a manifestation of sorcery. Something like that.

Dysartes wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I remember chaos eldar in the early days of 40k. Pretty sure they were in the slaves to darkness book, for example.
I think that may be old and outdated lore now though.

I think it falls under the heading of "lore which hasn't been revisited, but also hasn't been explicitly contradicted yet"

My headcanon: they're out there, but each one is like, solitaire rare. Being protected by and tied to chaos means that they can tap into those tasty unbound psychic powers eldar used to have full access to and then some. Being physical beings (unlike a daemon) means that they remain in the physical world indefinitely, and they're psychic abilities mean they're really good at manifesting psychic effects including summoning daemons.

If I were to write rules for them, I'd make them unique assassin-level characters, possibly with a 1 per army rule reflecting how rare they are. You don't want them to be so strong that they oversahdow characters we have heard of, but they should feel like unusual and obscenely powerful being in their own right.

Iracundus wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh? If not, do you think it could happen? While the majority of Eldar would not do so, I wouldn't be surprised if some Drukhari or particularly ruthless corsairs were willing to do so. Basically the entire post-Fall Eldar society revolves around staying out of Slaanesh's grasp, and help of any kind is scarce in the 42nd millennium. Followers of Khorne would be a natural 'ally,' as the two gods are arch-rivals. I could see a particularly desperate group of Eldar making a deal with Kharn, Angron or some greater daemon with service in exchange for protection. This, of course, would probably not end well, but a desperate, failing craftworld, some Drukhari who couldn't get enough victims to torture, or some isolate corsairs running out of supplies might be willing to strike a deal with some bloody-minded individuals to try to escape eternal rape.

While Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals, they're still both facets of Chaos, inherently and fundamentally linked, and Slaanesh has no trouble finding expression and drawing strength from bloodletting and battle.

I'm not aware of any such instances in the fluff of Eldar allying with Khornate (or any chaos) elements (aside from fully fledged Rogue Trader era Chaos eldar), such a thing could possibly come to pass if GW wanted to write it, but would probably just hasten whatever terrible end they were fearing anyway.

Spoiler:

In the Dark Eldar trilogy novels, there is a Craftworld character that turns out to have been possessed or working willingly with a daemon of Tzeentch. In one of the previous Chaos codices from several editions ago, there is mention of how the intrigues and oracular abilities of the Farseers can attract the attention of Tzeentch.

I can definitely see a desperate Farseer choosing to accept the aid of Tzeentch in order to keep their people safe and thwart Slaanesh. It might even work for awhile, until Tzeentch sees fit to discard them.

I didn't really get the impression they were willing or possessed. They fell under Tzeentchs thrall but they didn't notice doing it and I think that's how Chaos should work a lot of the time, you serve it without knowing.

pm713 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh? If not, do you think it could happen? While the majority of Eldar would not do so, I wouldn't be surprised if some Drukhari or particularly ruthless corsairs were willing to do so. Basically the entire post-Fall Eldar society revolves around staying out of Slaanesh's grasp, and help of any kind is scarce in the 42nd millennium. Followers of Khorne would be a natural 'ally,' as the two gods are arch-rivals. I could see a particularly desperate group of Eldar making a deal with Kharn, Angron or some greater daemon with service in exchange for protection. This, of course, would probably not end well, but a desperate, failing craftworld, some Drukhari who couldn't get enough victims to torture, or some isolate corsairs running out of supplies might be willing to strike a deal with some bloody-minded individuals to try to escape eternal rape.

While Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals, they're still both facets of Chaos, inherently and fundamentally linked, and Slaanesh has no trouble finding expression and drawing strength from bloodletting and battle.

I'm not aware of any such instances in the fluff of Eldar allying with Khornate (or any chaos) elements (aside from fully fledged Rogue Trader era Chaos eldar), such a thing could possibly come to pass if GW wanted to write it, but would probably just hasten whatever terrible end they were fearing anyway.

Spoiler:

In the Dark Eldar trilogy novels, there is a Craftworld character that turns out to have been possessed or working willingly with a daemon of Tzeentch. In one of the previous Chaos codices from several editions ago, there is mention of how the intrigues and oracular abilities of the Farseers can attract the attention of Tzeentch.

I can definitely see a desperate Farseer choosing to accept the aid of Tzeentch in order to keep their people safe and thwart Slaanesh. It might even work for awhile, until Tzeentch sees fit to discard them.

I didn't really get the impression they were willing or possessed. They fell under Tzeentchs thrall but they didn't notice doing it and I think that's how Chaos should work a lot of the time, you serve it without knowing.

That warlock at the end realized his own self-deception, and accepted possession in desperation when he started losing.

I see pretty much most Eldar that fall to Chaos falling via deception since the Eldar are aware of Chaos more than the average human is, so any obvious attempts to corrupt them are going to be rebuffed. By the time they realize, they are so far gone that there is no turning back.

Dark Eldar have no honour and don't face their enemies head on...so Khrone likely hates them.

They don't rot...so nurgle is probably hating them.

Tzeetch - I have no idea what Tzeech thinks of anything and if i did he would change his mind.

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
Dark Eldar have no honour and don't face their enemies head on...so Khrone likely hates them.

They don't rot...so nurgle is probably hating them.

Tzeetch - I have no idea what Tzeech thinks of anything and if i did he would change his mind.

I could see Tzeentch having an interest, all those plans within plans/back stabbing/treachery to get ahead in DE society?

Nurgle could maybe get a foot in the door with haemonculous cults, cheating death, manipulation of genes, creating fear in their enemies?

Khorne as well I think could find semi-honorable/fighty folks in the incubi? Also all of the gladiatorial Combat seems pretty up his alley?

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
Dark Eldar have no honour and don't face their enemies head on...so Khrone likely hates them.

Khorne doesn't care. As long as the blood flows, and skulls stacked, Khorne is pleased. And the Dark eldar shed a lot of blood. And they don't use the one thing he really hates- psychic magic nonsense.

The stupid axe wielding frontal assault meathead only 'One True Way' Khornates are not whole and totality of Khorne, which makes it doubly a shame that's all GW will produce for the Blood God.

Voss wrote:

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
Dark Eldar have no honour and don't face their enemies head on...so Khrone likely hates them.

Khorne doesn't care. As long as the blood flows, and skulls stacked, Khorne is pleased. And the Dark eldar shed a lot of blood. And they don't use the one thing he really hates- psychic magic nonsense.

The stupid axe wielding frontal assault meathead only 'One True Way' Khornates are not whole and totality of Khorne, which makes it doubly a shame that's all GW will produce for the Blood God.

The Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy has a Succubus fall because she gets really into fighting just for bloodsheds sake. It doesn't end well for her.

I've always found it sad there's not a minority of Khornates who use range weapons, you could shed a lot of blood with a heavy bolter.

I would imagine that Drukhari shredders would result in a fair bit of spilt blood:

"when fired it unleashes an expanding mesh of monofilaments with miniscule barbs along their length. The mesh entangles the victim in an invisible net that slices apart the target as it struggles..."

pm713 wrote:

Voss wrote:

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
Dark Eldar have no honour and don't face their enemies head on...so Khrone likely hates them.

Khorne doesn't care. As long as the blood flows, and skulls stacked, Khorne is pleased. And the Dark eldar shed a lot of blood. And they don't use the one thing he really hates- psychic magic nonsense.

The stupid axe wielding frontal assault meathead only 'One True Way' Khornates are not whole and totality of Khorne, which makes it doubly a shame that's all GW will produce for the Blood God.

The Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy has a Succubus fall because she gets really into fighting just for bloodsheds sake. It doesn't end well for her.

I've always found it sad there's not a minority of Khornates who use range weapons, you could shed a lot of blood with a heavy bolter.

In the Dark Eldar trilogy there is also an example of two groups of Mandrakes fighting. One group gets help from Tzeentch and the other from Nurgle. Kheradruakh despises both for being corrupted and assassinates the winning leader.

So the Dark Eldar are aware of Chaos to an extent that most humans are not, and they seem to actively fight against overt Chaos corruption when it is uncovered.

As for what Khorne values, it seems to be the struggle and triumph of the mightier over the weaker. So obviously he values melee combat, but the old Daemon Engines of Khorne from Epic had a variety of short to medium range weapons, and the Cannons of Khorne which were unreliable long range weapons. It seems therefore Khorne accepts ranged combat but only up to a certain point. I would suggest that Khorne objects to when the bloodshed becomes too "easy" and "abstract" and no longer visceral. So a nuclear weapon wiping out a helpless city effortlessly with no risk on the part of the attacker would not get too much in the way of kudos from Khorne. That could be why for example in BFG, Khorne aligned ships still try to close for boarding action (and the rules give them a bonus for them), as the nature of space combat is abstract and too far from the "in your face" visceral bloodletting that Khorne likes.

 agurus1 wrote:

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
Dark Eldar have no honour and don't face their enemies head on...so Khrone likely hates them.

They don't rot...so nurgle is probably hating them.

Tzeetch - I have no idea what Tzeech thinks of anything and if i did he would change his mind.

I could see Tzeentch having an interest, all those plans within plans/back stabbing/treachery to get ahead in DE society?

Nurgle could maybe get a foot in the door with haemonculous cults, cheating death, manipulation of genes, creating fear in their enemies?

Khorne as well I think could find semi-honorable/fighty folks in the incubi? Also all of the gladiatorial Combat seems pretty up his alley?

Just to add something to Nurgle, the Eldar are a hopeless society that's in decline / destroyed since 10000 years. If that's not the best playground for Nurgle I don't know what is. Nurgle is not just about rot and sickness.
Even GW noticed that in a cool fluff blurb in the DG Codex where a craftworld falls to Nurgle because of their desperation.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are there any example of the Eldar making alliances with the armies of other Chaos gods for protection against Slaanesh?

Yup. Literally the plot of the first Fabius Bile novel.

A group of Harlequins manipulate Bile (and get him to goad the Radiant King into the same scheme) into invading Lugganath as they foresaw the Radiant King would grow too powerful in the future for the Craftworld to handle. The Craftworld took a massive hit from the invading EC fleet but it was still around as a result.

More of an outright manipulation than a true alliance per se, but interesting to see it was the Harlequins actively setting up a Chaos fleet to attack a Craftworld.

Like all sentient species in 40k, the eldar can fall to chaos.

Chaos is the representation of primordial sentience, the most base emotions of existence. As such, they are found in all species.

It's just the expression of those emotions that is unique to each species. Human despair and Tau despair, while conceptually similar, may express very differently.

For example, the tau are so culturally fixated on the greater good that despair to them may express itself as rebelliousness, as they despair the failure of the greater good. So they act like anarchists as an expression of their despair.

And orks gain great pleasure in doing everything to excess, so their expression of pleasure might be a Kult of speed, or a stormboyz warband (who were originally Khorne followers).

khorne is probably the hardest for the eldar to fall to though as weird as it sounds. They still worship Khaine, which is their expression of rage. Khaine is a part of khorne in the metaphysical way all chaos is overlapping storms of emotion.

to get the eldar to shift from khaine to khorne would require some subtlety of devotion. The expression of khorne worship amongst the eldar would be pretty unique as they use psychic powers to augment their melee fighting (warlocks are a very fighty psyker).

Slannesh would be the easiest - their lives are built around avoiding slannesh at all costs, so it's only one false step and they're lost.

Khorne doesn't care. As long as the blood flows, and skulls stacked, Khorne is pleased. And the Dark eldar shed a lot of blood. And they don't use the one thing he really hates- psychic magic nonsense.

The stupid axe wielding frontal assault meathead only 'One True Way' Khornates are not whole and totality of Khorne, which makes it doubly a shame that's all GW will produce for the Blood God.

Khorne does care! If blood is blood then offering any human head would be worth the same as the head of a space marine...but its not. Khrone is wants blood to flow but he has BIG preferences on how its done, for example a plague that made people bleed like crazy wouldn't please Khrone much and neither would back stabbing someone and you bloody better not use sorcery because that would just straight up piss him off.

Rebel4ever85 wrote:

Khorne doesn't care. As long as the blood flows, and skulls stacked, Khorne is pleased. And the Dark eldar shed a lot of blood. And they don't use the one thing he really hates- psychic magic nonsense.

The stupid axe wielding frontal assault meathead only 'One True Way' Khornates are not whole and totality of Khorne, which makes it doubly a shame that's all GW will produce for the Blood God.

Khorne does care! If blood is blood then offering any human head would be worth the same as the head of a space marine...but its not. Khrone is wants blood to flow but he has BIG preferences on how its done, for example a plague that made people bleed like crazy wouldn't please Khrone much and neither would back stabbing someone and you bloody better not use sorcery because that would just straight up piss him off.

You've just precisely illustrated what Voss was talking about. Khorne is not a single narrow one dimensional note and mindlessly repeating phrases that imply this does a disservice to the nuance of chaos in 40k.

Too many fans get obsessed with deliberately oversimplified slogans to describe things in 40k - 'blood for the blood god' is the 'make america great again' of 40k....

Despite comments to the contrary, the chaos gods aren't just BEWBZ, BLOOOODDD, BOILS, BOLTS (of magic)