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This is a question to CSM, R&H, Daemon, Chaos Knights and any kind of Chaos soup players alike. How many points do you set aside for summoning, and what models do you bring along to be summoned?
Also, against what opponents or in what situations will you bring which models?

I think around 160pts is a decent toolkit.

You can summon a prince if you need a massive scary monster (might be worth stretching to get wings, but I think that's more if you know you need a Prince - we're talking trying to keep things on a budget, both pts and cash), 20 Plague bearers if you need to hold an objective, 20 Blood Letters if you're up against a screen you weren't expecting - 6 Screamers or a Fate skimmer if you need to claim an objective your infantry can't reach at the penultimate minute.

Everything is 8 power, which you've got a good chance of getting and 160pts is not a huge handicap. Plus I think setting up a Fateskimmer, Daemon prince, 20 plague bearers and 20 blood thirsters is going to have your opponent giving the side eye to all your characters knowing that any one could suddenly bring in something very different.

I expect it'd be the Daemon Prince and the Plaguebearers you'd bring on the most though. The Fateskimmer feels like something you're doing to turn a minor win into a major one as you're already winning 160pts down if you're thinking of that, and the Blood letters are more of a threat or a fix if things have gone wrong. If you've got the models, you can bump up the Prince to have wings and got 170 - you'd then be able to take daemonic infantry units just over 20 models (to get some leeway in their bonuses) but be aware that this pushes their summoning level to 12.
So it's something to do if you get an above average roll, but costs about £30 to do that for both.

That sounds very reasonable, although I don't get exactly what role you envision the Fateskimmer for. Why would I only summon him, when I am already in the lead pointswise, how would he help me convert a minor into a major victory, and what spells should I pick for him?

Do you think the Changeling would be a decent choice to hunt down smash captains and other melee specialists? It's only PL 5, so summoning should be quite reliable, but does he/she/it get the job done?

Also, I think I really like the mindgame aspect of chosing and summoning stuff mid-game. But off course, I also see the drawbacks - randomness, not starting on the board, hampering and potentially damaging the summoning characters, missing out on a number of buffs, anti-deepstrike tech like Auspex Scan, potentially losing out on command points by having stuff not in a detachment.... I wonder, if I really want to make summoning a strong feature of my army, where would the upper limit be, when it tilts from fluffy to stupid? How many points could be scraped off a main force at 1000, 1500 or 2000 pts, before it turns from a boon to a liability?

One of the biggest deterrents for me with summoning, (and most of the hobby) is transporting units and models I wont be using.

But as far as what would be useful, Letter bombs, Flamers, plaguebearers.

The whole point of summoning is that you can summon whatever is best for the situation you have at hand.

Great question.

I'm one of those rare fans of summoning. I don't use it often, there are problems with it. But some of my most enjoyable games have been with summoned units.

The thing I like about summoning - the units with bad transport / movement options become better when they just pop up on the battlefield. Instead of spending CPs to deep strike, you just roll some dice. Juggernauts are the reason you summon.

The total amount of points you set aside is dependent on what you want to get out of it. 500 points is about the size of a detachment, you can get some mileage out of that amount.

The units I have summoned are usually Bloodletters, about 20 - 30 at a time. Greater Daemons are fun to bring in as well, nothing says hello like a Bloodthirster. Keep a stable of models ready to come in and you can keep your opponent off guard all game. Heralds are pretty easy to summon too.

The units I typically use to summon are Chaos Lords and Sorcerers with jump packs. I could see someone creating a Word Bearers Supreme Command Detachment consisting mostly of Hammerlords just for bringing in the big guys.

The situations where I care about summoning:

- NOT against NuMarines. They have too many ways to deny deep strike in a 12" bubble, meaning you don't get to charge the turn you arrive. They have so many overwatch tricks it takes away from the potential.

- Orks and Dark Eldar are the armies where I consider it. Dropping a Bloodletter Bomb is a gambit that can change games. My lists are structured so I can remove about 500 points before the game starts and switch to summoning.

- Custodes, or any low model count army. Summoning makes it too easy to tie up a small unit for a turn or two while the rest of your army gets some work done.

- Nurgle. When I'm playing Nurgle Daemons, I get some tactical flexibility by dropping Plaguebearers in interesting spots.

AuntHerbert wrote:
That sounds very reasonable, although I don't get exactly what role you envision the Fateskimmer for. Why would I only summon him, when I am already in the lead pointswise, how would he help me convert a minor into a major victory, and what spells should I pick for him?

Do you think the Changeling would be a decent choice to hunt down smash captains and other melee specialists? It's only PL 5, so summoning should be quite reliable, but does he/she/it get the job done?

Also, I think I really like the mindgame aspect of chosing and summoning stuff mid-game. But off course, I also see the drawbacks - randomness, not starting on the board, hampering and potentially damaging the summoning characters, missing out on a number of buffs, anti-deepstrike tech like Auspex Scan, potentially losing out on command points by having stuff not in a detachment.... I wonder, if I really want to make summoning a strong feature of my army, where would the upper limit be, when it tilts from fluffy to stupid? How many points could be scraped off a main force at 1000, 1500 or 2000 pts, before it turns from a boon to a liability?

The Fateskimmer seemed the toughest of the 8 power level summon fast units - something that can be summoned just before the end of the game and then do a 12" summon distance + 14"+D6 flying move the following turn towards some unclaimed objective (maybe even warp timed), whilst also being a character with a decent inv save. It's a niche thing, but might also be useful in a Maelstrom game and as part of the summoning psychology game.

As for how much, I think it's always about 170pts and that holds even as you scale up or down.

I think you're building around having the flexibility in a small 1000-1250 game, it's a big chunk of points at this level but being able to react to what the enemy has brought accordingly is equally quite significant. At mid sized 1500-1750, you're only starting down 10% of your points so you can save your summon for when the right opportunity presents itself and make full use of the swiss army knife of daemons at your disposal.

However at larger games, or wanting to go heavy in a null deployment style strategy - it's probably better to just bring a Daemon detachment. You'd be looking at the same units anyway for the most part (especially as you've got less on the board so will almost always want the troops units), but can also pad out your options by sticking some nurglings in there who can now lock down parts of the board at the first turn by infiltrating whilst also providing a boost in CP, letting you just deepstrike those deamons rather than having them being limited by character positions.