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Not sure the title of the thread is appropriate... that said, I'll explain my question:

Just saw a batrep a couple hours ago where one of the players (a very seasoned 40k player) was running a prophets of the flesh haemonculus with diabolical soothsayer, which, among others, allows to re-roll a save roll.

Said player failed three out of his five 4++ insensible to pain saves and decided to simultaneously reroll two of fails using the 1CP reroll strat as well as his warlord trait. I was wondering if he could have chosen to reroll the first failed save using his warlord trait, then, depending on the outcome, spend 1CP to reroll the second (just in case the first reroll was unsuccessful).

eparedes0785 wrote:
Not sure the title of the thread is appropriate... that said, I'll explain my question:

Just saw a batrep a couple hours ago where one of the players (a very seasoned 40k player) was running a prophets of the flesh haemonculus with diabolical soothsayer, which, among others, allows to re-roll a save roll.

Said player failed three out of his five 4++ insensible to pain saves and decided to simultaneously reroll two of fails using the 1CP reroll strat as well as his warlord trait. I was wondering if he could have chosen to reroll the first failed save using his warlord trait, then, depending on the outcome, spend 1CP to reroll the second (just in case the first reroll was unsuccessful).

If he was fast rolling saves (or in this case, Ignore Wound ability, which isn't a save), he was breaking the rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If he was fast rolling saves (or in this case, Ignore Wound ability, which isn't a save), he was breaking the rules.

insensible to pain is an Invuln save though. Am I missing something?

In practical application he could have chosen to reroll one of the failed insensible to pain save roll, because that is an Invuln save. and then re-rolled one with the Strat.

I believe you can only fast roll Hit and Wound Rolls. Not Saves or Ignore Wound mechanics.

mightymconeshot wrote:
I believe you can only fast roll Hit and Wound Rolls. Not Saves or Ignore Wound mechanics.

Correct, the rules do not allow for fast rolling of saves.

However, in practical application the majority of people out there will fast roll for wounds and saves if they can save time and if fast rolling would not change the outcome.

I'm lost... is it possible, in the context of the above explained situation, to reroll one of the failed saves with diabolical soothsayer, then, knowing the outcome spend one CP to reroll an additional save or would I have to reroll both simultaneously, like the guy in the batrep I saw did?

You're answer is unanswerable because it assumes using a house rule of Fast Rolling saves. Since this is not technically legal, it is impossible to say either of the options are legal.

eparedes0785 wrote:
I'm lost... is it possible, in the context of the above explained situation, to reroll one of the failed saves with diabolical soothsayer, then, knowing the outcome spend one CP to reroll an additional save or would I have to reroll both simultaneously, like the guy in the batrep I saw did?

First of all, he wasnt rerolling saves, BCB already said that. He was using an ability that lets him ignore wounds (insensible to pain). Technically, the rules dont allow to fast roll these, but as deathreaper said, when there is no harm in doing so people agree to do it, to save time. Even when fast rolling, all rolls are still treated individually. He can re-roll one of those failed ignore wound rolls with his warlord trait, and use the command re-roll to reroll another failed wound roll.

 alextroy wrote:
You're answer is unanswerable because it assumes using a house rule of Fast Rolling saves. Since this is not technically legal, it is impossible to say either of the options are legal.

Pretty much this.

 p5freak wrote:

eparedes0785 wrote:
I'm lost... is it possible, in the context of the above explained situation, to reroll one of the failed saves with diabolical soothsayer, then, knowing the outcome spend one CP to reroll an additional save or would I have to reroll both simultaneously, like the guy in the batrep I saw did?

First of all, he wasnt rerolling saves, BCB already said that. He was using an ability that lets him ignore wounds (insensible to pain). Technically, the rules dont allow to fast roll these, but as deathreaper said, when there is no harm in doing so people agree to do it, to save time. Even when fast rolling, all rolls are still treated individually. He can re-roll one of those failed ignore wound rolls with his warlord trait, and use the command re-roll to reroll another failed wound roll.

Except that insensible to pain is an invuln save, so I dont know what you are talking about (and BCB was incorrect). So he was re-rolling saves, Invuln saves.

I do not know what BCB said insensible to pain was not a save.

Part of me thinks that there needs to be a check on timings for this as if both say when this model loses a wound and then has an effect that triggers off the back of it, then I'd think only one can be used as using one with the trigger effect invalidates the other as you have missed the timing on losing a wound by activating the ability/ stratagem. Don't know the wording of the stratagem or ability though so I can't pass any kind of judgement. With it being 2 separate rules however, I would generally say that fast rolling shouldn't be an issue in this regard as the timings should prevent such an occurrence.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Except that insensible to pain is an invuln save, so I dont know what you are talking about (and BCB was incorrect). So he was re-rolling saves, Invuln saves.

I do not know what BCB said insensible to pain was not a save.

You are right, its an inv sv, i was wrong. But it doesnt change the outcome. He can reroll both failed saves.

Yes, my mistake, I mixed them up with Inured to Suffering, because GW are great at naming things. The point still stands though, you cannot fast roll saves of any kind.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, my mistake, I mixed them up with Inured to Suffering, because GW are great at naming things. The point still stands though, you cannot fast roll saves of any kind.

In practical application the majority of people out there will fast roll for wounds and saves if they can save time and if fast rolling would not change the outcome.

It is not strict RAW, but it is how the game is played for the most part.

Ok. I get the point now. Let's say I resolve the attacks one at a time, would that prevent my opponent from fast dice rolling the saves (assuming saves could be fdr)?

eparedes0785 wrote:
Ok. I get the point now. Let's say I resolve the attacks one at a time, would that prevent my opponent from fast dice rolling the saves (assuming saves could be fdr)?

If you're playing with house rules, that's for you to decide with your opponent. Regardless of whether or not you fast roll your attacks, your opponent cannot fast roll their saves. If you allow for saves to be fast rolled, you have to discuss with your opponent how to resolve any issues which come up as a consequence.

That said, the answer you are looking for can be found in the Core Rulebook FAQ:

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: If I have access to several abilities that allow me to re-roll a single dice, can I use more than one of these to affect a roll that includes more than one dice? If so, how is this applied?
A: If you have more than one ability that allows you to re-roll a single dice (for example, the Gaze of Fate psychic power and the Command Re-roll Stratagem), you can use both of these to re-roll the same 2D6, 3D6 etc. roll, but must declare any re-roll abilities that you wish to use before any dice are re-rolled. Note that each individual dice that makes up that roll can still only be re-rolled once.

 MinMax wrote:

eparedes0785 wrote:
Ok. I get the point now. Let's say I resolve the attacks one at a time, would that prevent my opponent from fast dice rolling the saves (assuming saves could be fdr)?

If you're playing with house rules, that's for you to decide with your opponent. Regardless of whether or not you fast roll your attacks, your opponent cannot fast roll their saves. If you allow for saves to be fast rolled, you have to discuss with your opponent how to resolve any issues which come up as a consequence.

That said, the answer you are looking for can be found in the Core Rulebook FAQ:

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: If I have access to several abilities that allow me to re-roll a single dice, can I use more than one of these to affect a roll that includes more than one dice? If so, how is this applied?
A: If you have more than one ability that allows you to re-roll a single dice (for example, the Gaze of Fate psychic power and the Command Re-roll Stratagem), you can use both of these to re-roll the same 2D6, 3D6 etc. roll, but must declare any re-roll abilities that you wish to use before any dice are re-rolled. Note that each individual dice that makes up that roll can still only be re-rolled once.

This FAQ doesnt apply here, because the three 4+ inv are single dice rolls. This FAQ is about rerolling one of 2D6 dice with gaze of fate, and the other one with the command reroll stratagem.

eparedes0785 wrote:
Ok. I get the point now. Let's say I resolve the attacks one at a time, would that prevent my opponent from fast dice rolling the saves (assuming saves could be fdr)?

Whether you fast roll your hit rolls and wound rolls, or roll them one at a time, it makes no difference. When it comes time to roll saves and apply damage, you should do them one at a time. This is explicitly stated in the Fast Rolling rules.

For example, a unit suffers five hits and wounds (whether fast rolled or not). The player controlling the target unit then rolls a dice, chooses then and there whether to reroll it, then applies damage. The player then repeats this four more times, but cannot go back and retroactively reroll anything.

While fast rolling saves is a common enough house rule, it is problematic in cases like this in that it presents the player with more information than they should have access to if you go by the rules.

@cheex, thanks for your reply, that's exactly what I was looking for