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Hello, our group has down most of the rules pretty well but combat (and charging tricks sometimes) has eluded us for some time. Maybe some basic questions, but we had difficulty finding a direct answer.

Question 1:

Let's say a squad of 2 charges and is in combat with another squad of 10.
To try and make it simple, the charging models are labeled model A and B.

Model A can hit some of the 10 that B cannot because of the within 1 inch, and vice versa.

I attack with model A's weapons and kill some models. If my opponent removes the models that B can touch, does B get to attack as well or forfeit because he's no longer within an inch of models?

Question 2:

Let's say a squad charges another squad of 10 or 20. During the combat as normal, several models are killed and the front models are moved so they're no longer an inch apart (like in question 1). I use a strat to attack again. Can I do that? As in I guess pile in a second time to attack?

Question 3:

I charge in with a carnifex or scrapjet and do 3 mortal wounds on the charge. They remove 3 models in the front, can I pile in and attack? I'm confident this one is a yes, but since I'm here...

Question 4:
Say I wipe out a squad completely in combat and consolidate into another unit. Can I pop a strat to attack again, the second combat being the new unit?


Thank you very much!

1) assuming they're the same 7nit, no attacks are lost because range is checked once for the entire unit before any attacks are made.

2) your question has been written poorly. I presume you are asking if the unit that CHARGED can attack again? Yes, because a unit that charged can be selected to run through the fight sequence, including the 3" initial move and the 3" at the end. If they are NOT within 1" and did not charge, then selecting them to fight again will utterly and totally depend on the wording of the strat as to whether it will work.

3). Yes of course. Read literally the first step of the fight sequence.
4) depends. If your unit charged that turn, unless it declared the second 7nit as a target during the charge sub phase, it cannot attack them.

Keramory wrote:
Hello, our group has down most of the rules pretty well but combat (and charging tricks sometimes) has eluded us for some time. Maybe some basic questions, but we had difficulty finding a direct answer.

Question 1:

Let's say a squad of 2 charges and is in combat with another squad of 10.
To try and make it simple, the charging models are labeled model A and B.

Model A can hit some of the 10 that B cannot because of the within 1 inch, and vice versa.

I attack with model A's weapons and kill some models. If my opponent removes the models that B can touch, does B get to attack as well or forfeit because he's no longer within an inch of models?

Question 2:

Let's say a squad charges another squad of 10 or 20. During the combat as normal, several models are killed and the front models are moved so they're no longer an inch apart (like in question 1). I use a strat to attack again. Can I do that? As in I guess pile in a second time to attack?

Question 3:

I charge in with a carnifex or scrapjet and do 3 mortal wounds on the charge. They remove 3 models in the front, can I pile in and attack? I'm confident this one is a yes, but since I'm here...

Question 4:
Say I wipe out a squad completely in combat and consolidate into another unit. Can I pop a strat to attack again, the second combat being the new unit?


Thank you very much!

1) Because the two models are in the same unit, B can attack. Like shooting, Choose Targets is locked in before any casualties, and range is only checked at the Choose Targets phase. Once the targets are "locked in", casualties cannot prevent a model within that unit from attacking.

2) If they charged, they can. If they didn't charge, they cannot.

WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK Official Update Version 1.6 wrote:Q: When using an ability or Stratagem to fight again in the Fight phase, or fight ‘as if it were the Fight phase’, are you able to ignore the rules for who is eligible to fight in the Fight phase? For example, a unit is not within 1" of any enemy models and did not charge that turn when I use the Stratagem – can it be selected to fight again in order to pile into an enemy unit that was more than 1" away and fight?
A: No.

3) Yes, because they charged. If you successfully charged, you get to activate, pile in, etc whether you are within 1" of an enemy at the time you activate the unit or not.

4) It depends if you charged or not (noticing a pattern here?). If you charged, and did not declare the 2nd target unit as a target of the charge, you can consolidate into them, and if you "Fight again", you can pile in and consolidate, but you cannot attack them. If you did target them as a target of your charge, you can attack them as normal. If the unit didn't charge that turn, it can attack them as normal.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) assuming they're the same 7nit, no attacks are lost because range is checked once for the entire unit before any attacks are made.

2) your question has been written poorly. I presume you are asking if the unit that CHARGED can attack again? Yes, because a unit that charged can be selected to run through the fight sequence, including the 3" initial move and the 3" at the end. If they are NOT within 1" and did not charge, then selecting them to fight again will utterly and totally depend on the wording of the strat as to whether it will work.

3). Yes of course. Read literally the first step of the fight sequence.
4) depends. If your unit charged that turn, unless it declared the second 7nit as a target during the charge sub phase, it cannot attack them.

Thank you!

As for 2, yes. Another way to put it. Unit A charged in to Unit B. Unit A swung, killed a bunch. Player of Unit B removed the front models and now theres more then an inch gap between the two units. If the strat said something along the lines of "at the end of the fight phase, fight again", I was asking if Unit A could fight unit B again despite the more then 1 inch gap.


Sorry one more, to cover everything that could happen:

Question 5:

If 2 separate units charge into the enemy unit and pile in. The first unit that charges knocks out enemies so now the second unit is now out of the 1 inch range. After the first unit is finished attacking, can the second unit now attack or are they out of combat?

Keramory wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) assuming they're the same 7nit, no attacks are lost because range is checked once for the entire unit before any attacks are made.

2) your question has been written poorly. I presume you are asking if the unit that CHARGED can attack again? Yes, because a unit that charged can be selected to run through the fight sequence, including the 3" initial move and the 3" at the end. If they are NOT within 1" and did not charge, then selecting them to fight again will utterly and totally depend on the wording of the strat as to whether it will work.

3). Yes of course. Read literally the first step of the fight sequence.
4) depends. If your unit charged that turn, unless it declared the second 7nit as a target during the charge sub phase, it cannot attack them.

Thank you!

As for 2, yes. Another way to put it. Unit A charged in to Unit B. Unit A swung, killed a bunch. Player of Unit B removed the front models and now theres more then an inch gap between the two units. If the strat said something along the lines of "at the end of the fight phase, fight again", I was asking if Unit A could fight unit B again despite the more then 1 inch gap.


Sorry one more, to cover everything that could happen:

Question 5:

If 2 separate units charge into the enemy unit and pile in. The first unit that charges knocks out enemies so now the second unit is now out of the 1 inch range. After the first unit is finished attacking, can the second unit now attack or are they out of combat?

For question 5, the second unit still can be chosen to Fight because they charged. This means that they can be selected, move 3", and then make their attacks if within 1" after that move, and then move 3" as a consolidation again (whether or not they were able to roll their attacks).

However, if Unit B was already locked in combat with the enemy, and Unit A charged and wiped them out, then unit B could not be selected to Fight, as it neither charged nor is within 1" of the enemy. Essentially, the logic is an OR gate, not an And gate.

"Can unit Fight = true" IFF "Unit Charged = True" OR (inclusive) "Unit Is Within 1" of Enemy = True"

Thanks!

I just dont think we ever got our heads completely around the fight sequence and have done them step by step properly.

So it sounds like when multiple units charge, each one individually piles in, fights, then consolidates one at a time then correct?

We've been doing it where you declare all charges, charge, pile in, fight one at a time, then everyone consolidates at the end.

Keramory wrote:
Thanks!

I just dont think we ever got our heads completely around the fight sequence and have done them step by step properly.

So it sounds like when multiple units charge, each one individually piles in, fights, then consolidates one at a time then correct?

We've been doing it where you declare all charges, charge, pile in, fight one at a time, then everyone consolidates at the end.

You resolve one units fight phase in its entirety before moving on to the next unit, with chargers being and other "always fights first" units being selected first, then resolving non-chargers.

Consolidate is the final step at the end of each units activation. Just read through the steps in the primer again

Consolidation at the end is 7th Ed

As others have noted, 8th made a significant changes in close combat. Most notably, charging and fighting are done one unit at at time (albeit in different phases) and concluded in full before moving into the next unit.

This means you declare your charge, resolve overwatch, and move your models for a single unit before declaring the next charging unit. Similarly, you select a unit to fight, pile-in, attack, and consolidate before selecting the next unit to fight.

Additionally, when picking a unit to fight the criteria are:
1. Has this unit fought yet this fight phase? If yes, you cannot select that unit (special rules aside)
2. Did this unit charge this turn? If yes, you may select this unit. Note all such units must be selected before you can use the next criteria.
3. Is this unit within 1" of an enemy unit? If yes, you may select this unit.

 alextroy wrote:
As others have noted, 8th made a significant changes in close combat. Most notably, charging and fighting are done one unit at at time (albeit in different phases) and concluded in full before moving into the next unit.

This means you declare your charge, resolve overwatch, and move your models for a single unit before declaring the next charging unit. Similarly, you select a unit to fight, pile-in, attack, and consolidate before selecting the next unit to fight.

Additionally, when picking a unit to fight the criteria are:
1. Has this unit fought yet this fight phase? If yes, you cannot select that unit (special rules aside)
2. Did this unit charge this turn? If yes, you may select this unit. Note all such units must be selected before you can use the next criteria.
3. Is this unit within 1" of an enemy unit? If yes, you may select this unit.

Sorry one question because we got this completely wrong. I thought you had to declare all your charges before going through the charges. Is that not true? Can I mentally plan say 5 charges to be safe, but after the actions of the first charge change my mind?

Keramory wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
As others have noted, 8th made a significant changes in close combat. Most notably, charging and fighting are done one unit at at time (albeit in different phases) and concluded in full before moving into the next unit.

This means you declare your charge, resolve overwatch, and move your models for a single unit before declaring the next charging unit. Similarly, you select a unit to fight, pile-in, attack, and consolidate before selecting the next unit to fight.

Additionally, when picking a unit to fight the criteria are:
1. Has this unit fought yet this fight phase? If yes, you cannot select that unit (special rules aside)
2. Did this unit charge this turn? If yes, you may select this unit. Note all such units must be selected before you can use the next criteria.
3. Is this unit within 1" of an enemy unit? If yes, you may select this unit.

Sorry one question because we got this completely wrong. I thought you had to declare all your charges before going through the charges. Is that not true? Can I mentally plan say 5 charges to be safe, but after the actions of the first charge change my mind?

That is indeed not true. You pick a unit, resolve the entire charging sequence, then move on to the next unit. Once you've decided you've charged with all the units you want to, the Charge phase ends.

The one thing I can see mixing you up is that when you select a unit to charge, you must declare all the units that unit is charging. Then you resolve Overwatch, roll charge distance, and move the unit. Once that is done, you may select another unit and go through all the same steps again.

 alextroy wrote:
The one thing I can see mixing you up is that when you select a unit to charge, you must declare all the units that unit is charging. Then you resolve Overwatch, roll charge distance, and move the unit. Once that is done, you may select another unit and go through all the same steps again.

Very good point. You can't roll and THEN decide who you want to charge, you have to decide who you want to charge first, suffer overwatch, and then attempt the roll.