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Can you use the drukhari / craftworld strategy fire and fade in a unit that is within 1" of an enemy unit? If so, would said unit be able to charge later that turn?

It moves as if it is the movement phase. Therefore it must make a Fall Back if it is within 1" of an enemy.

Falling Back means you normally cannot charge. Even if you could though - read the last line of the stratagem. It explicitly says you cannot charge after using the strat.

Also, you have to shoot to use fire and fade, so unless you have pistols, you can't use it.

Fire and Fade mentions whether or not the unit can charge after using the stratagem.

All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?

eparedes0785 wrote:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?

You cannot fall back, because the stratagem doesnt give you permission to do so. You can only move. Move and fall back is not the same.

 p5freak wrote:

eparedes0785 wrote:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?

You cannot fall back, because the stratagem doesnt give you permission to do so. You can only move. Move and fall back is not the same.

Fall back is a type of movement, just like advance. Fire and fade clearly states you move "as it was your movement phase", and the faq confirms that all movement phase rules apply to fthat movement, so they absolutely can fall back. The only restrictions to fire and fade are: you must do it right after shooting, can't advance, can't charge (but you can't advance or charge anyway if you fall back).

What if that pistol shot slays the last model in the enemy unit so that no more models are within 1" of any of the models in the unit that shot?

Then there’s no need to Fall Back.

Seizeman wrote:

Fall back is a type of movement, just like advance. Fire and fade clearly states you move "as it was your movement phase", and the faq confirms that all movement phase rules apply to fthat movement, so they absolutely can fall back. The only restrictions to fire and fade are: you must do it right after shooting, can't advance, can't charge (but you can't advance or charge anyway if you fall back).

You cant fall back. Move and fall back have separate paragraphs, they are separate actions.

 p5freak wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Fall back is a type of movement, just like advance. Fire and fade clearly states you move "as it was your movement phase", and the faq confirms that all movement phase rules apply to fthat movement, so they absolutely can fall back. The only restrictions to fire and fade are: you must do it right after shooting, can't advance, can't charge (but you can't advance or charge anyway if you fall back).

You cant fall back. Move and fall back have separate paragraphs, they are separate actions.

They are not separate actions. If you started the phase within 1" of enemy models and you move, you are falling back and the correspondent penalties apply. It's just an extra condition applied to a movement action.

If they were separate and independent actions, how much would you be able to displace your models when tou fall back? According to you, infinite, because the only restriction on the fall back "action" paragraph is "must end its movement more than 1" from all enemy units". Of course, they are restricted to your movement value because falling back is, indeed a type of movement. Also, according to your theory, advancing is also a separate action and, when you choose it, you can't move at all, because the advance paragraph only states that you add to your movement characteristics, not that you can move the models that are advancing.

So yes, any time a unit can move "as it was your movent phase", they can fall back or advance, unless that ability (or a different one, like the reserves rule) specifically states otherwise (like in this case, where you can't advance).

Seizeman wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Fall back is a type of movement, just like advance. Fire and fade clearly states you move "as it was your movement phase", and the faq confirms that all movement phase rules apply to fthat movement, so they absolutely can fall back. The only restrictions to fire and fade are: you must do it right after shooting, can't advance, can't charge (but you can't advance or charge anyway if you fall back).

You cant fall back. Move and fall back have separate paragraphs, they are separate actions.

They are not separate actions.

Yes, they are.

If you are allowed to move "as it was your movement phase" Then you can move, advance, fall back as those are all types of movement and any move you can make in your movement phase you are allowed to do with the Strat.

 p5freak wrote:

eparedes0785 wrote:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right. I shoulda read carefully before posting... but how about my first question... can I f&f out of a combat after having shot a pistol?

You cannot fall back, because the stratagem doesnt give you permission to do so. You can only move. Move and fall back is not the same.

You can fall back. This is covered in the main rulebook FAQ:

Q: Are you able to Advance or Fall Back in a different phase when moving ‘as if it were the Movement phase’ through an ability, Relic, Stratagem etc.?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes. Note that if you do Advance, and the unit has already Advanced this turn, you should roll the dice again to see how much further the unit moves (i.e. do not use the same roll made when the unit first Advanced this turn).

Ok, you can fall back with fire and fade, after firing a pistol in melee.

This is a very interesting application of the strategem I had never thought about before. I’m not sure it has any real use but it is a nice trick to have in the back pocket. Thanks for hashing out the details, guys!

Its have very little use TBH. Most units that want to be in combat are better off staying in combat or already has a way to leave and charge/shoot anyways. Like Quins, they can already leave combat, Bikes can already leave and shoot and has a stratagem that lets them charge after leaving (so its still a stratagem), a lot of the times the units base movement is better than the 7" from Fire and Fade, really you are only going to use it on a unit that cannot fallback, shoot, and melee that also has a pistol. Which is very limiting. With the ability for fly to shoot after falling back and i think all 4 Aeldari rules (IDK if all 3 has it will have to look) has a stratagem to fallback + charge, any unit on Bikes will have better shooting that isn't a pistol and will always opt to use those guns and that stratagem.

The best use for this is on characters, like a Archon, Succubus,Autarch, etc.. that has pistol, melee weapons, but also no way to do both shooting and melee when they fallback (yes they have stratagems to do one or the other, but not both).