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Hello everyone,

About 7 years ago I played Warhammer 40k, as the traitor imperial guard faction. However, I am planning to return to the game this summer after graduating and getting a decent paying job.
.
I am stuck in a tough dilemma choosing and designing an army list for my new faction. My two favorite space marine chapters are the Salamanders, due to their lore and color scheme; and the Raven Guard, for their fighting style tactics and 8th edition codex.

I was wondering if there any experienced players that could help me designing an army list for Salamanders that I could use for hit and run tactics, quick strikes, and confusing the enemy, while also using their codex abilities to my advantage. I know that I am asking for a lot, but is it possible? My biggest trouble is figuring out how to get meltas and flamers on the other side of the board quick, while using units like eliminators and scouts to target key targets.

Because I am only starting, I want to take baby steps, and aim for a 500-700 pt army for now.

I greatly appreciate any advice and help. Thank you!

Welcome to Dakka, and the Space Marines.

There is a lot you can do with the dial-your-own successor chapter rules. Both meltas and flamers an enjoy the extra 3” range, for example. But the basic Sali CT is solid. Not really exploitably powerful, but has some nice perks.

Eliminators and snipers are easy. You just take them and stick them somewhere on the table and shoot things. One perk if just using the basic salamander CT is built in re-rolls, so you don’t need to hug a HQ for aura buffs.

Melta and flamers are not in the best place right now, competitively. So a lot of things that use them are going to be less efficient. This should be fine in casual play, just a bit of full disclosure here.

Most of the options you have are going to be old marine units, not primaris. I think the only flamers they get are on aggressors. Which can put out a TON of burning, but if you don’t want to footslog, require an expensive transport. Could be fun, but a huge investment of points.

You could harken back to Sali lists of yore and go with drop pods. While the “must stay 9” away” thing sucks a lot of the wind out of them for flamers, melta can still work. You won’t get the extra damage for reg melta, but still can get the 12”. Multimeltas can get out of a pod in half range, but have the -1 for moving. Not optimal, but drop 4 of them in a dev squad, with a captain along for re-rolls, and you can melt something.

Bikes are not bad. In an edition where a lot of people are spamming plasma, the extra wound and toughness they have is not all that. But in friendly play, they do get the job done. A 3 man squad with 2 flamers and a c-flamer sarge is only 89 points. Gets you 7 bolters and 3 flamers. Only 6 wounds, so if something looks at them too hard they might just evaporate. Melta ups the points, with the same toughness.

Not sure about Land Speeders. They might work; been a while since I fielded mine, and they keep dropping the points. Attack bikes are similar.

Tac squads actually synergize well with Sali CT. Use you re-rolls on the special/heavy (shoot them first) and the bolters to soak wounds and add firepower. Rhinos still keep the small arms off and move you around if you don’t want to pod.

Dreads can be fun.

--

OK, here is a rough, themed list I just tossed together. Obviously, there is a lot of personal bias, and I tend to enjoy making fun fluffy lists. The basic concept is a sneaky on-table force scouting out the enemy, and then calling in a hammer from orbit to start the battle.


++ Battalion Detachment (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**
. Salamanders

+ HQ +

Librarian: Bolt pistol, Force stave

Vulkan He'stan

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Scout Squad: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad
. 7x Space Marine: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Eliminator Squad
. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod: Storm bolter

Drop Pod: Storm bolter

++ Total: [47 PL, 919pts] ++

Doing something like adding another Eliminator squad would take you to a 1k list. I tend to think in battalions these days, and the 2xHQ 3xTroop tends to bump points up. You could run as a patrol by dropping one of the HQs and a troop pick or two. Honestly, a lot depends on what units you like to have. There is very few things that are outright bad, Just a number that are overpriced. Unfortunately, meltas and flamers are in that camp. But they can still work in games at the FLGS with like minded players. But if you run into someone doing tournament prep, it’s going to be ugly.

How much you want to stick with themes and how competitive you want to be is almost always a trade-off. The list I wrote is pretty all-in on the melta/flamer concept. You could swap some out for more normal units if you wanted. YMMV, lot depends on taste and your local meta.

Hmm, could be tricky but I can offer the following advice.

Salamanders strength is in their rerolls and flamer/melta rules. Low shot volume units make best use of the rerolls whilst units like flamestorm aggressors make best use of the latter.

If you wanted to go a bit sneaky I'd recommend looking at the Phobos units. The HQ units have low shot but powerful output weapons that'll make good use of the rerolls. Likewise eliminators and even units like suppressors will do well. Oh and Invictors with flamers would be good too. In terms of getting flamers in range it's tricky. There isn't really a great way of doing this as they lack the range for most deep striking options. Multi melta Devs in a drop pod are good but don't expect them to last long after they drop in.

The problem is that both armies play differently and to combine both ideas means that you'll be taking units that won't necessarily make best use of the available rules. If you plan to start small you could always get 500 points of both and see which you like best. Just a thought.

 Nevelon wrote:

**Chapter Selection**
. Salamanders

+ HQ +

Librarian: Bolt pistol, Force stave

Vulkan He'stan

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Scout Squad: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad
. 7x Space Marine: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Eliminator Squad
. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod: Storm bolter

Drop Pod: Storm bolter

++ Total: [47 PL, 919pts] ++

Thank you for such an awesome list! It definitely provides me short term goals on designing the army. I originally wanted to have an assault squad with flamers, and land speeders. However, this is a much more coherent list than what I originally had. It pounds your enemy from range, keeping them busy at medium, and still worried about units hitting from the sides.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LynxSarnage wrote:

The problem is that both armies play differently and to combine both ideas means that you'll be taking units that won't necessarily make best use of the available rules.

I see what you mean. Its just that I love the Raven Guard codex to death, but I really want to paint my guys Salamanders. I figured though, if Salamanders anyways use flamers, I will have to get them in range. With them being tougher than other chapters, I could squeeze them into tighter positions, bringing more damage. On the other hand, I can use Phobos units to hit my enemy from other angles, covering my melta and flamer units.

If you plan to start small you could always get 500 points of both and see which you like best. Just a thought.

I wish, but its kinda pricey. That is why I am attempting to kill two birds with one stone.

I honestly forgot about assault marines, especially with flamers. I used to use them as a bully unit in prior editions, with flamers for most of them. But 8th was not kind to them. The 9” DS restriction makes it so you can’t drop and burn any more, and the ability to walk out of combat hurt their disruption role. I tried them with plasma pistols at the start of 8th, and they did OKish. I’ve not used them since the latests codex dropped, shock assault might have helped them with their low damage output.

Now as a Salamander, you do have some extra tricks to make the flamers a little more viable. And glancing at your chapter strats, some to make the CC a little nastier.

Compare and contrast a 5 man assault squad, jump packs, 2x flamers vs a 3 man bike squad, 2x flamers.

Bike squad cost less points, but not a whole lot.
6 wounds of bikes vs. 5 assault. Bikes are tougher. Assaults have more bodies. Against D1 fire, the bikes are better, vs. D2+, the assaults have an edge.
Assault marines can DS. Bikes can turbo boost and are 2” faster. DS is not what it used to be for AMs. The turbo however is a nice thing for the bikes, if you want to make with the burning. 14” move + 6” turbo +8” flamer range gives you a 28” threat range for the flamers. That’s more then the normal 24” starting separation for a lot of maps. You do give up your bolter fire to get it though. The 12” + d6” + 8” of the assault marines might be able to pull it off, but needs luck and both parties to be on the line.
AMs have the FLY keyword. This is nice. Lets them fall back out of CC and fire, and makes them very hard to pin down.
AMs bring more chop. 13 basic attacks on the charge. vs 8 from the bikes. They also get 3 bolt pistol shots.
Bikes bring more shooting. 6 bolters always double-tapping due to bolter drill.
Sarges have different options, the biker’s ability to take a combi-flamer is the big winner here.

Now here is the kicker. Which do you think looks cooler? Which fits the theme of your list better? On paper, IMHO, the bikes are a much better choice. But if imagery of assault marines descending on wing of fire, chainswords revving is one that appeals to you, go for it! They might be a little sub-par, but they can get the job done. Although honestly, if you want a jump pack assault unit, I’d take some vanguard vets. Not everyone needs to be packing flamers.

Land Speeders are another units I’ve only briefly flirted with in 8th. The movement penalty for shooting heavy weapons made them a little to unreliable for me, as they are supposed to be zooming around. With the Salamander CT, you can mitigate that a lot. A MM speeder re-rolling it’s to hit and wound rolls for it’s one shot becomes a much bigger threat.

Full disclosure: I’m an Ultramarine player. Most of my thought processes are from that POV. My son plays Salamanders, but he’s still learning the game and tends to think more about coolness of a unit then it’s effectiveness, and has trouble remembering what strats he has available. I’m also more of a casual player, so probably put more weight on the the Rule of Cool then Mathhammer. I understand the efficiency numbers, I just tend to ignore them.

Full disclosure: I’m an Ultramarine player.

Yeah... I kinda figured that out with your profile picture and ranking

I’m also more of a casual player, so probably put more weight on the the Rule of Cool then Mathhammer. I understand the efficiency numbers, I just tend to ignore them.

Same here! I much more prefer to just have a fun game with cool looking models. Personally, I was not a big fan of tournaments. I participated in 2 competitions, and did extremely well making it to the semi-finals where I lost to the same opponent twice. He was a real pro, and left a bad taste in mouth. Being a 15 year old, it felt weird when a 30 year old man took the game more seriously than I did, purely focusing on winning, and even criticizing me for my unit selection.

I’d take some vanguard vets

YES!!! Thank you for reminding me about them! I am 100% getting those guys. It will be very fun to convert them to Salamanders, and customizing those hammers and shields.

Obviously another thing to take into account is who am I playing against. I can see the bikes and land speeders roasting hordes of tyranids and orks for breakfast (so satisfying to even imagine it). However, they will probably perform weaker against necrons and eldar.

I genuinely appreciate your enthusiasm. Thank you, for hyping me up.

Bubble wrapping and screen clearing is relevant in 8th, against a lot of armies.

A lot of armies will have some cheap unit, just to keep people at arm’s length. For example, a Guard player might have some artillery/tanks in a corner, with a squad or two of guardsmen around them to keep people from doing things like placing a drop pod full of melta next to them. Not that anyone would do that. Tanks (unless they FLY or are Ultramarines) can’t just back out of combat and shoot anymore. While breaking out and having other units shoot the guys who had the audacity to scuff your paint can happen, you’d rather not loose the turn of shooting.

So having a fast moving screen clearing unit to make sure there is a clear landing zone for your reserves can be useful. Alternatively you can do this with shooting. Units like Thunderfire Cannons and Whirlwinds can clear chaff out of line of sight.

For certain marine lists, you also want to have screens for your own units. Infiltrators are good for this, but expensive. The 12” no drop zone they give will ensure nobody can DS and charge, unless they have a special rule letting them charge over 12” (which is rare). Basic naked scouts can also work. The ability to start outside of your DZ lets you push your screen out into no man’s land.