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I haven’t really been keeping an eye on the forums etc but didn’t see any recent posts about the new Sisters codex

Now that the dust has settled for a few months, what’s the consensus on it? I’m very strongly considering taking up SoB to run along side an inquisitor. I’m not a power gamer by any means but at the same time I’m not that interested in signing up to be auto-curb stomped every game.

Anything to really look out for or avoid in this book? On glancing at it, they seem to have all the weaknesses of Marines but none of the strengths and long range weapons are all but missing. I cant quite work out what’s meant to be doing the heavy lifting other than Engine units.

glados wrote:
I haven’t really been keeping an eye on the forums etc but didn’t see any recent posts about the new Sisters codex

Now that the dust has settled for a few months, what’s the consensus on it? I’m very strongly considering taking up SoB to run along side an inquisitor. I’m not a power gamer by any means but at the same time I’m not that interested in signing up to be auto-curb stomped every game.

Anything to really look out for or avoid in this book? On glancing at it, they seem to have all the weaknesses of Marines but none of the strengths and long range weapons are all but missing. I cant quite work out what’s meant to be doing the heavy lifting other than Engine units.

It's hard to figure out what does the heavy lifting because the book is really well balanced [part of that also stems from the unit pool being fairly tiny, but also it's just well done from a balance perspective]. The only real "must have" are Exorcists, and that's more because they're the only thing that provides the capability they do than because they're more powerful than other options. You may want to look at Zephyrim, Celestians, and Seraphim to do some of your lifting, which are generally well performing.

In terms of overall power level, I'd rank us as on the high side of mid-tier. We're pretty good counter-marines, because we have easy access to army-wide ignore AP2, the ability to boost our native invulnerable saves, and are MEQ infantry, which makes us pretty tough for the cost per unit and exceptionally tough in cover.

For playstyle, we're kind of an assault army now. While our shooting is technically better than our melee, the availability of melee buffs and exceptionally good melee specialists, plus the short range of our shooting, meaning that close combat will almost certainly follow, makes us play more of a fast and aggressive force than a stand-and-shoot force [though fast, aggressive melee is also just strong in general].

glados wrote:
I haven’t really been keeping an eye on the forums etc but didn’t see any recent posts about the new Sisters codex

Now that the dust has settled for a few months, what’s the consensus on it? I’m very strongly considering taking up SoB to run along side an inquisitor. I’m not a power gamer by any means but at the same time I’m not that interested in signing up to be auto-curb stomped every game.

Anything to really look out for or avoid in this book? On glancing at it, they seem to have all the weaknesses of Marines but none of the strengths and long range weapons are all but missing. I cant quite work out what’s meant to be doing the heavy lifting other than Engine units.

Well you pretty much nailed it, SoB are almost like fair(definitely a bit too restricted though) Nu-Marines. Which means they are not exactly a great choice for highly competetive players unless they get hopefully some buffs in PA or maybe due to special Ephrael Stern interactions, but they are certainly playable if you aren't that competetive.

You need Exorcists, the Valorous Heart combo with an Imagifier is quite solid(Celestians recommended), and Serphims work well with Bloody Rose, also can a pure SoB army be quite annoying for psyker-heavy opponents with the right combos. Well and if you take Celestine(which is sadly debatable) never take her bodyguards, they straight up don't work anymore.

Just on the friendly side of good.

So long as you avoid Crusaders and Death Cult Assassins you should be fine. Sisters strength isn't in any one unit(although Repentia are awesome), but each piece doing its part.

From the looks of things, they’re basically fairly cheap, efficient marines who firmly cover the basics without much extra.

The updated rapid fire rules for marines just before getting an up to date model range and codex for sisters is kind of a bummer though, it severely undercuts their long standing thing of having more efficient basic bolter fire.

Their shooting is a lot weaker than Marines, not just because they lack doctrines, but because they have none of the insane re-rolls. No Chapter Masters. No Lieutenants. No crazy full-rerolls for a CP for Gravcannons, nothing like Master Artisan traits. Etc.. Their gun-tanks don't ignore move-and-shoot penalties for heavy weapons and don't have fly, so they can be tagged. They also have no shooting ignoring line of sight.

An Exorcist or two along fire lanes to keep your opponent honest is nice, as is the odd Serpaphim drop to bring a few melta-pistols into a key position, but I don't think they work as an all-out shooting army.

Their strengths are either fairly durable (for the cost) board control, as some sister armies can get quite model-heavy, and some very hard hitting melee that also benefits from super-reliable charges, etc.. due to Miracle Dice.

So at it's most basic, Sisters will try to sit on objectives with cheap sisters and pepper the odd target with an Exorcist, daring the opponent to move in. If the opponent comes close, they get hit by something like a buff-up Repentia unit (and they do hit super-hard). If the opponent does't come close, Sisters (try to) win by board control.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Their gun-tanks don't ignore move-and-shoot penalties for heavy weapons

...Mine do...

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Their shooting is a lot weaker than Marines, not just because they lack doctrines, but because they have none of the insane re-rolls. No Chapter Masters. No Lieutenants. No crazy full-rerolls for a CP for Gravcannons, nothing like Master Artisan traits. Etc.. Their gun-tanks don't ignore move-and-shoot penalties for heavy weapons and don't have fly, so they can be tagged. They also have no shooting ignoring line of sight.

An Exorcist or two along fire lanes to keep your opponent honest is nice, as is the odd Serpaphim drop to bring a few melta-pistols into a key position, but I don't think they work as an all-out shooting army.

Their strengths are either fairly durable (for the cost) board control, as some sister armies can get quite model-heavy, and some very hard hitting melee that also benefits from super-reliable charges, etc.. due to Miracle Dice.

So at it's most basic, Sisters will try to sit on objectives with cheap sisters and pepper the odd target with an Exorcist, daring the opponent to move in. If the opponent comes close, they get hit by something like a buff-up Repentia unit (and they do hit super-hard). If the opponent does't come close, Sisters (try to) win by board control.

One thing to keep in mind about our shooting; while we don't have the marine ease with every shot, our miracle dice can provide us with a way to absolutely guarantee the key shots, or the maximum damage when the shot lands. No one like to charge a squad with a pair of meltaguns when you've got a couple of sixes in the pool.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


It's hard to figure out what does the heavy lifting because the book is really well balanced

Thats a really good way of looking at it and I hadn't thought of it like that. If no one/two units are absolute standouts that is indeed a good thing.

Someone else mentioned here to avoid Death Cult Assassins? Really? I thought they looked very good on paper? I'd be interested in hearing a more in depth analysis.

Also, like everyone else I'm guessing I love the The Triumph of Saint Katherine model, but cant quite work out what role it should fit on the battlefield. It looks like it will just get beamed hard turn 1 every game? Appreciate the replies guys.

glados wrote:
Someone else mentioned here to avoid Death Cult Assassins? Really? I thought they looked very good on paper? I'd be interested in hearing a more in depth analysis.

Arcos fill the same roll while being more broadly applicable to most situations, get better bonuses from priests (and their free super-arco per squad), and a strategem for big charges.

I'm guessing it's because they didn't get new models but the cultists and crusaders were pretty much ignored with this release. At some point in the future that may change with strategems for mortal wounds, wargear (knosso prond-style), infiltration, etc whenever plastics come along.

glados wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


It's hard to figure out what does the heavy lifting because the book is really well balanced

Thats a really good way of looking at it and I hadn't thought of it like that. If no one/two units are absolute standouts that is indeed a good thing.

Someone else mentioned here to avoid Death Cult Assassins? Really? I thought they looked very good on paper? I'd be interested in hearing a more in depth analysis.

Also, like everyone else I'm guessing I love the The Triumph of Saint Katherine model, but cant quite work out what role it should fit on the battlefield. It looks like it will just get beamed hard turn 1 every game? Appreciate the replies guys.

Death Cult Assassins sit in an awkward place somewhere between Repentia and Arco-flagellants in role while having less survivability and none of the support options.

The Triumph does indeed have the problem you mentioned. There are people who like it enough to try to make it work, but it's not a high priority for most players.

glados wrote:
Also, like everyone else I'm guessing I love the The Triumph of Saint Katherine model, but cant quite work out what role it should fit on the battlefield.

So far most suggestions seem to be hiding out of Los bolstering exorcists and trying to tempt the opponent to manoeuver and waste guns shooting at them. Kind of a distraction carnifex in that sense.

As a group of individual characters the procession would be good for their points but as one model... you can lose three of your five relics pretty easily and then you are picking between the free faith dice, the extra act of faith, and the miracle dice booster. Unfortunately it follows a common theme of current sororitas characters as being unable to keep up with the assault to hand out buffs.

The extra dice can be handy early on, sisters don't have much in the way of alpha strike and are miracle starved initially. In particular if you are going second you'll likely be clinging on to your one solitary miracle dice to use on divine intervention and the extra dice from the triumph gives you a little more leeway (especially if you have an ebon chalice warlord and don't want to waste that free '6' when any other value would do the same - you've got no guarantees of rolling any more later on).

What Lammia said about the DCA's and Crusaders is spot on. Lacking the <order> and Adepta Sororitas keywords, they don't benefit from some key strats. Arcos have a strat of their own to make up for their lack of keywords, which makes them the best choice if you want a battle conclave unit.

Truth be told though, none of the BC units can use or generate miracle dice, and they don't really help fill slots in detachments either. If they're in a detachment with Missionary, they don't count at all; you won't need to struggle to fill elite spots in a brigade- we have so many elite choices! Fielding a Vanguard is not a wise choice because it minimizes your ratio of points to CP.

I generally go Sister Soup; I put all my close combat in a Bloody Rose detachment, then back them up with either Valorous Heart for better saves or Sacred Rose for killer overwatch.

Even though you've got multiple orders, it's still pure Sororitas, so Sacred Rites still apply.

And yeah, Exorcists.

I think Sororitas are in a good spot. I have the old metal sisters which I run as an all-foot horde of well over a hundred power-armored girls in Argent Shroud, and it is fantastic. Certainly have had nothing to complain about.

I would say overall they're a close-range shooty army - they lack quantity and re-rolls above 12", but don't really want to be in assault unless they are charging Bloody Rose. So a narrow and dangerous range band, but my girls have come out on top more than once. Takes a bit more finesse than either a gunline or a "wail forwards and hit them with a stick" approach though.

Infantry are good, transports are crap, Exorcist is god tier, penitent stuff is solid but a bit overpriced for how fragile it is. Go Valorous Heart. Bloody rose are cool too.

You can build an extremely tanky army that has difficulty applying damage to more than 2-3 targets per turn and generally focuses on outlasting your opponent, or you can build an extremely fragile army that has excellent damage potential but will lose a significant portion of its forces every turn.

Basically SoB are a strong, well balanced army that works well in the current meta but has some significant weaknesses good players will need to overcome. Namely that our actual ability to damage is priced at a pretty heavy premium and we are extremely CP hungry.

glados wrote:

Also, like everyone else I'm guessing I love the The Triumph of Saint Katherine model, but cant quite work out what role it should fit on the battlefield. It looks like it will just get beamed hard turn 1 every game? Appreciate the replies guys.

I haven't played it myself, so this is secondhand advice, but it seems to fit:

Its main and best role is to buff assaulting units (especially turn 2). With it, you can use miracle dice to guarantee two long-distance charge rolls in a phase, helping (for instance) a unit of repentias and a unit of deep striking zephyrim both make their charges, and buff them and a big chunk of your army all the while.

In your opponent's shooting phase, it can also use miracle dice twice (at 3+) to guarantee an invuln save against big bad guns. That, a -1 to hit, and a pile of wounds means it should be surprisingly hard to kill.

And most of all, at its point cost you don't have to be precious about losing it. If your opponent throws enough dakka at it to kill it turn 1, then it's probably better than that firepower being used to destroy your actual offensive units.

Unlikely to be a big dumb tournament meta hammer, but probably useful with an assault oriented army.

glados wrote:
Also, like everyone else I'm guessing I love the The Triumph of Saint Katherine model, but cant quite work out what role it should fit on the battlefield. It looks like it will just get beamed hard turn 1 every game? Appreciate the replies guys.

a) it's infantry. Hide it behind ruin out of LOS. It moves freely through ruins.
b) it's lot tougher than you might give credit and lot tougher than any basic sisters with exception of valorous heart for the cost.

You likely want the terrain piece or two with it to get more MD's to go along with her.

Very very mediocre if you ask me, they could have been made a bit better ruleswise:

1) Only 2 decent/competitive orders in Bloody Rose/Valorous Heart, rest of the Orders range from useless to "mediocre" at best.

2) Canoness deals very good damage for the points she costs but she can't buff as good as Captains (who are just a bit more pricier) and can't have all the damage/mobility buffs a Captain has.

3) Battle sisters aren't cheap enough to fit that good in the grand scheme of Imperium things (with Infantries going like AM -> AdMech -> Marines -> Custodes). Their only gimmicky is trying to fit as many defensive buffs as possible, be it a 4++ or by ignoring AP -1 and -2 (and I would like to remind you that Marines can stack even more defensive buffs throughout all the Supplements/Faith and Fury or an easy 2+ Armour save to all their army thanks to free cover over 12". Their shooting output isn't as accurate as marines (and I won't be telling you the fact that they have to actually reach 12" before outputting double shots whilst Marines can stand still and have full Rapid Fire effects at max range, generally 30" or more) and for some odd reason the weaponry at their disposal is abysmal, consisting in Flamers, Meltas and Bolter/Storm Bolter; truly disappointing that the new codex actually removed many Melee/Ranged guns in favor of "ease of use" and "too many options to put in a kit otherwise" (and they don't come cheap at all since they cost as much as Primarines whilst paying half prices in terms of points), making them the most anonymous army in terms of "Own weapons".

4) Half the codex doesn't have the proper Keywords (be it <ORDER> or even ADEPTA SORORITAS, akin to GSC), marking the aforementioned choices as mostly not good (with the exception of Mortifiers/Priest/perhaps Arco-flagellants 'cause they have the relevant stratagem or aura rule that make them usable/good).

5) Half the codex is "Sisters of Battle but with different equipment", possibly with an additional rule and even fewer weapon choices.

They’re legitimately good.

They have a killer base design, but lack options and variety both in models and weapons.

Also, there was a lazyness in the redesign with basically all sisters having the same body but different rules and weapons Pretty sloppy if you ask me.

They are objectively a lesser SM army. Not sure GW will put much work into expanding the line more (flyers, new units...)

Siegfriedfr wrote:
They have a killer base design, but lack options and variety both in models and weapons.

Also, there was a lazyness in the redesign with basically all sisters having the same body but different rules and weapons Pretty sloppy if you ask me.

They are objectively a lesser SM army. Not sure GW will put much work into expanding the line more (flyers, new units...)

Isn't that the purpose tho? They are basically a mix between Guardsmen and Space Marines. Very uniformed military like. Personally i like their style and like they are all looking the same.

And yes they are a lesser SM, but is that a problem? Thats like saying Tac Marines are just lesser Primaris, and Primaris are just lesser Custodes lol.

From my limited experience with them so far, the new sisters look rather solid and interesting, with some interesting mechanics without being as exploitatively gimmicky as some other armies. Most of the units and abilities seem interesting, useful, and capable. About the only major issue I see is the Exorcist, both in that it's near to Russ Tank Commander-stupid levels (why GW ever thought those needed a cost *decrease* is beyond me) of firepower/cost efficiency and, more troublingly, it appears to be a mandatory auto-take for any Sisters army because there's literally *nothing* else in the army to fill any fire support role. But if that's the worst thing I can point to, I'd say overall that's a big win, particularly for this army.

Reading through the codex for the first time in full last week, I was actually struck by how much I actually like the art this time around, especially the hardened brutal scarred faces everywhere instead of angelic visages on everyone.

Siegfriedfr wrote:
They have a killer base design, but lack options and variety both in models and weapons.

Also, there was a lazyness in the redesign with basically all sisters having the same body but different rules and weapons Pretty sloppy if you ask me.

.. thats pretty much the norm for a LOT of armies though.

whats the diff bertween a tac marine a devestator marine and an assault marine?

just some equipment, the armor is, more or less, the same

I know that this forum skews very negative on everything, but I feel like people are straight up providing misinformation in here.

-Sisters have been competitively successful since their codex came out.

-Sisters have been competitively successful with multiple builds including a variety of their units including Zephyrim, Mortifiers, tough to kill Valorous Heart, Exorcists, Repentia etc. And no Exorcists are not required.

-Sisters aren't anything like a "objectively lesser SM army", their mechanics are completely different.

Gordoape wrote:
-Sisters have been competitively successful since their codex came out.
-Sisters have been competitively successful with multiple builds including a variety of their units including Zephyrim, Mortifiers, tough to kill Valorous Heart, Exorcists, Repentia etc. And no Exorcists are not required.
-Sisters aren't anything like a "objectively lesser SM army", their mechanics are completely different.

Are they though? The sisters have been winning games on and off since the start of 8th but they aren't running anyone over, at least not that i've seen.

A.T. wrote:

Gordoape wrote:
-Sisters have been competitively successful since their codex came out.
-Sisters have been competitively successful with multiple builds including a variety of their units including Zephyrim, Mortifiers, tough to kill Valorous Heart, Exorcists, Repentia etc. And no Exorcists are not required.
-Sisters aren't anything like a "objectively lesser SM army", their mechanics are completely different.

Are they though? The sisters have been winning games on and off since the start of 8th but they aren't running anyone over, at least not that i've seen.

He said Competitive. What you say sounds decently competitive as well.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
He said Competitive. What you say sounds decently competitive as well.

All armies are competitive in that sense.

Gordoape wrote:
And no Exorcists are not required.

If they're not required, they're certainly ubiquitous enough that there's no difference. Of the couple games I've seen in person, BR's, and going through the last 5 pages of the army lists subforum, I've found one list of 1500pts+ that didn't have multiple exorcists, and that was a gimmick list built around spamming as many heavy flamers as possible. That said, such is also not new, it's pretty much always been the case through every edition I've played

 Vaktathi wrote:
From my limited experience with them so far, the new sisters look rather solid and interesting, with some interesting mechanics without being as exploitatively gimmicky as some other armies. Most of the units and abilities seem interesting, useful, and capable. About the only major issue I see is the Exorcist, both in that it's near to Russ Tank Commander-stupid levels (why GW ever thought those needed a cost *decrease* is beyond me) of firepower/cost efficiency and, more troublingly, it appears to be a mandatory auto-take for any Sisters army because there's literally *nothing* else in the army to fill any fire support role. But if that's the worst thing I can point to, I'd say overall that's a big win, particularly for this army.

Reading through the codex for the first time in full last week, I was actually struck by how much I actually like the art this time around, especially the hardened brutal scarred faces everywhere instead of angelic visages on everyone.

I don't see why taking exorcists is a bad thing considering they're the coolest thing in the entire game.

A.T. wrote:

Gordoape wrote:
-Sisters have been competitively successful since their codex came out.
-Sisters have been competitively successful with multiple builds including a variety of their units including Zephyrim, Mortifiers, tough to kill Valorous Heart, Exorcists, Repentia etc. And no Exorcists are not required.
-Sisters aren't anything like a "objectively lesser SM army", their mechanics are completely different.

Are they though? The sisters have been winning games on and off since the start of 8th but they aren't running anyone over, at least not that i've seen.

I mean, competitive doesn't necessarily mean overpowered and i feel like you're conflating the two. You don't need to be Iron Hands level of crazy to be considered a good army.