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OK, pretty much all the buffs to DAEMON available to CSM are keyed to HERETIC ASTARTES or a <LEGION> keyword.

BUT, tons of warp denizens from the proper DAEMON ARMY pretty much just buff DAEMON, usually also keyed to an alignment, also, there is a number of psychic powers mentioning DAEMONS.

Now, according to FAQ, stratagems from the DA codex can't benefit CSM, but what about loci, auras and psychic powers? Is the DAEMON -faction- keyword from DA simply a completely different thing from the CSM -non-faction- keyword, or is there some form of overlap?

 AuntHerbert wrote:
OK, pretty much all the buffs to DAEMON available to CSM are keyed to HERETIC ASTARTES or a <LEGION> keyword.

BUT, tons of warp denizens from the proper DAEMON ARMY pretty much just buff DAEMON, usually also keyed to an alignment, also, there is a number of psychic powers mentioning DAEMONS.

Now, according to FAQ, stratagems from the DA codex can't benefit CSM, but what about loci, auras and psychic powers? Is the DAEMON -faction- keyword from DA simply a completely different thing from the CSM -non-faction- keyword, or is there some form of overlap?

Auras and Powers are not locked to Faction Keyword DAEMON units, they work as normal. It's only Stratagems that ignore the RaW and previous FAQs to only work on Faction DAEMON.

Also "stratagems from the DA codex can't benefit CSM", Freudian slip?

 BaconCatBug wrote:


Also "stratagems from the DA codex can't benefit CSM", Freudian slip?

/whooosh <- me. Plz enlighten!

If you mean, because the forum doesn't translate DA as Daemon Army, well I wish I knew what shortcut it accepts.

DA = Dark Angels. The meme is that Dark Angels are secretly the Chaos ones and the Fallen are the ones who aren't, and the DA are desperate to stop the Fallen from exposing that.

For daemons the abbreviation is CD for Chaos Daemons, or just Daemons.

I guess in theory you could have an all-Nurgle Daemon detachment and a separate Deathguard detachment. DAEMONS from the second detachment should benefit from the locus if they are close enough to characters from the first detachment,. I don't see anything in the Daemon codex FAQ to forbid this.

You can also have a NURGLE detachment with deathguard units and chaos NURGLE daemons. Any aura abilities affecting NURGLE units from deathguard characters would work on NURGLE daemons.

So, basically, everything works as you would expect. Per the designer commentary, the difference between a Faction Keyword and a Keyword cease to exist as soon as the game begins.

So, for example, Chaos Space Marine Defilers can advance and charge when within 6" of a Slaanesh Daemon character from the Daemons codex, if said character is in a pure Slaanesh Daemon detachment, and would gain +1 Strength if near a Herald of Slaanesh. (So long as the Defiler itself has the Slaanesh allegiance/mark).

There is an FAQ specifying that Stratagems from the Chaos Daemons book are not usable on units from other codexes; however, it is explicit and does not cover other buffs which work as intended. Indeed, the example from the Designer's Commentary specifically regards daemons working with CSM, iirc.

Okay, I follow that aura abilities are still in affect across factions where stratagems are not. What about spells? Can Flickering Fire be cast on Tzeentch marked Obliterators or Fleshy Abundance cast on Mortarian (not saying I've done those exact things, if it turns out you can't.)

The4thEnemy wrote:
Okay, I follow that aura abilities are still in affect across factions where stratagems are not. What about spells? Can Flickering Fire be cast on Tzeentch marked Obliterators or Fleshy Abundance cast on Mortarian (not saying I've done those exact things, if it turns out you can't.)

The only thing locked into the DAEMON faction keyword is stratagems. Everything else follows the rules laid out in the BRB and BRB FAQ.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Chaos Space Marine Defilers can advance and charge when within 6" of a Slaanesh Daemon character from the Daemons codex, if said character is in a pure Slaanesh Daemon detachment, and would gain +1 Strength if near a Herald of Slaanesh

Just wanted to mark that out and double-check it, as it eluded me when first reading over it. So, to benefit from a loci, ALL the units in a CSM detachment need to have the DAEMON keyword (and the appropriate alignment), if one or more units in that detachment lack the DAEMON keyword (or follow the wrong god), the detachment is no longer a DAEMON <alignment> detachment, and it's units no longer benefit from loci?
EDIT, but, for that to work, there need not be any proper Chaos Daemon detachments on the battlefield, it's just, that the loci rule happens to appear in the CD codex. (/EDIT&EDIT 2]
That's an interesting twist I have to keep in mind, when setting up my Possessed bomb, as Dark Apostles and Masters of Possession have a hard time to get that keyword.

Also it mostly prevents CSM DAEMON Battalion detachments, and makes combining the perks of a Specialist Detachment with a loci tricky.

OK, so for CSM, all the units allowed in a DAEMON detachment, that benefits from a locus are:

HQ
Daemon Prince
Chaos Lord or Sorcerer on daemonic mount
Disco Lord on Helstalker

Elites
Possessed
Greater Possessed
Mutilators
Chaos Decimator

Fast Attack
Warp Talons
Blood Slaughterer of Khorne
Greater Blight Drone

Flyers
Heldrake

Heavy Support
Defiler
Forgefiend
Maulerfiend
Obliterator
Venomcrawler

and the Khorne and Kytan Lords of War

So, that's what the Wordbearer Warlord trait Exalted Possession and the Iron Warrior Relic Insiduum are really there for, Are there any other ways to get the DAEMON keyword onto a unit on the battlesheet that I have missed? Could theoretically, a lucky roll on the Chaos Boon list turn a non DAEMON detachment into a DAEMON detachment for the purpose of loci, if it happened on the sole non-DAEMON unit in the detachment?

No DAEMON units from the CSM codex (other than the four Actual Daemon units) can be in a DAEMON detachment, because they only have the DAEMON keyword, not the DAEMON faction keyword. The benefit from the Loci but they can't themselves be in a detachment that gets the Loci.

You're overthinking things. Basically, a SLAANESH DAEMONS detachment can only be made up of SLAANESH units from the Chaos Daemons codex, and anything with the SLAANESH and DAEMON keywords (regardless of whether they are faction keywords or not and regardless of what detachment they are in) will benefit from the Locus of Swiftness when in range of a model with that Locus.

Detachments and traits are determined before the battle, casualties don't change this mid game. Also as far as I know summoned units as well as the Chaos Boon stratagem add units to your army but they are not part of any detachment.

Aaaaahm, wait, that's the confusing part.

Ahh.

So, you do need an actual monogod DAEMON faction detachment on the field, and one of its models needs to be within 6" of one of the models of a CSM DAEMON <samegod> unit, but you don't have to twist yourself into a pretzel when planning CSM detachments, as those don't play into it, and that Wordbearer/Iron Warrior stuff is just a personal character buff without -much- strategic significance.
Yah, simpler than I feared. Sometimes trying to be too smart makes me twice as dumb.

 AuntHerbert wrote:
Aaaaahm, wait, that's the confusing part.

Ahh.

So, you do need an actual monogod DAEMON faction detachment on the field, and one of its models needs to be within 6" of one of the models of a CSM DAEMON <samegod> unit, but you don't have to twist yourself into a pretzel when planning CSM detachments, as those don't play into it, and that Wordbearer/Iron Warrior stuff is just a personal character buff without -much- strategic significance.
Yah, simpler than I feared. Sometimes trying to be too smart makes me twice as dumb.

I don't follow what you're saying in the bolded.

If a Herald of Slaanesh is eligible to give a Locus buff then a Slaanesh CSM Daemon unit will get the Locus buff if they're within 6" of the Herald, is the long and short of it.

OK, reading comprehension for beginners today for me. Sure, loci are keyed to characters, not units. My fault.