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This fluff and mystery around these periods is awesome. I have been reading as much as I can on the thunder warriors and their demise. I would like to break everything down from what we know as fact, semi fact or theory. Sorry if this is long winded but I want to clarify some theories.

1. The emperor created the thunder warriors from youth and genetically altered them after the age of strife to be his main army during the unification wars. He took shortcuts with them as they had a short life span and deteriorated quickly. They also remembered there past and they had feelings.

2. At the end of the age of strife the emperor also created the Custodes without flaws. They were superior to thunder warriors although TW could hold there own with them in HTH.

3. The emperor was a techno warlord as well and used the TW to conquer Terra. The number one enemy during the UW were other techno warlords and their techno barbarian armies.

4. The last battle of the Unification Wars saw the Custodes destroy the remaining Thunder warriors at Mount Ararat. The emperor was working on and had finished a better warrior (Astartes legions 1-20). The emperor had betrayed and destroyed his trusted dogs of war. He put them down and didn’t even try to help them.

5. So thunder warriors 1st enemy would be techno barbarians. It is assumed they had rhinos, chimaeras, storm birds gunship, hth weapons and early ranged weaponry and maybe had proto dreadnoughts.

6. The remaining thunder warriors and some allies attack the emperor’s palace. They are destroyed by the Custodes and 1st legion Dark Angels. The TW Primarchs is killed by the leader of the Custodes.

7. If any thunder warriors escaped would they have gone off world? We know of a couple that remained on Terra and extended their lives by using gene therapy and Astartes parts. Their current location or outcome is unknown.

8. These actions by the emperor make him evil to me. Maybe the Custodes leader Valdor felt pity on them and spirited some of them or their genetic material off world.

9. I think the primaris marines are possibly a combo of Custodes, Astartes, thunder warriors. If any thunder warriors are still alive they would hate the Custodes and dark angels. They would make great mercenaries as they have thoughts, feelings and free will. They may also be grey knights as they weren’t susceptible to phychic attack.

Please let me know what you think. I am really excited about this subject. Sorry to rant on.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
What if the Custodes are slightly worried the same fate awaits them, turned upon and destroyed by Girlyman and the Ultra marines and primaris marines? The Custodes have been sent off world in greater numbers recently fighting battles. This could weaken them on Terra opening a pathway to ruler ship for Roboute girylyman. Aria Tara is, the last written about survivor could be on Mars helping Cawl. Just some thoughts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arik Taranis could be on Mars helping Cawl. He is the last known surviving thunder warrior.

1 and 2. Pretty much. We know he had the ability to create perfect, stable warriors such as the Custodes but each one was time consuming to create. He needed mass-production armies and the Thunder Warriors were the first iteration.

3 and 4. Yes

5. Their vehicles are not really described but they seem to heave early bolters and chainswords.

6. Yes

7. We do not know of any who go off world. There is a short story about a Custodian hunting down a few stray Thunder warriors during the HH. I think it is in "Heralds of the Siege". It is implied that they are the last but I suppose there could be others.

8. To quote Neil Gaiman "He's so far past good and evil that he couldn't see them with a telescope on a nice clear night!" The Emperor wanted to ensure the survival of humanity as a species. To that end, he was willing to sacrifice individuals or subject them unpleasant fates. Does that make him evil or just necessary? One of the main themes of the 40K Universe is that the Imperium is a brutal, bloody, xenophobic, repressive regime but that all the alternatives are worse.

While Valdor may have felt sympathy for the Thunder Warriors, I am pretty sure he would never have helped them survive. Their genetic material was the unstable part, even if he had wanted to help individuals to survive, he would never have supported the continuation of the TWs. He had serious doubts about the creation of the "stabilised" Astartes.

9. No, the Primaris are purely improved Marines. They have 3 extra organs that Firstborn Marines lack but these extra organs are still derived from their respective Primarchs. They are designed to be even closer to the physiological capabilities of the Primarchs.

The Custodes are definitely biased against the Marines. They regard them as responsible for the Heresy and thus the incarceration of the Emperor in the Golden Throne. A lot of them regard Marines as little better than the TWs.

So, the only two remaining thunder warriors Arik Taranis and Ghota could be alive and viable as future characters? We could possibly see them return in a Black Fortress expansion or as a Kill team? The chances of a complete thunder warrior army died in the past I guess. I hope they return some how.

Where is this talk of a TW Primarch coming from?

SideSwipe wrote:
Where is this talk of a TW Primarch coming from?

Valdor: Birth of the Imperium. It's the title of their leader(s), nothing like the Astartes Primarch's.

Yep. The Thunder Warrior "Primarchs" were the leaders of the thunder warrior legions but they were not demigods. More like chapter masters or legion masters.

I believe in the FW black books there is a reference that in the early days of the conquest of the solar system, the warhounds legion had to storm a complex/space station that had been taken over by escaped Thunder Warriors. the thunder warriors were all killed but were apparently taking down 10-20 Legionnaires each before they were overwhelmed (the tight confines of the station likely helped them. So there is evidence that some thunder warriors not only escaped the culling on Terra, but somehow made it off planet.

It is mentioned that Arik Taranis has a Primarch aura glow and that he is a genetic genius. Is it possible that he is a PROTO Primarch? He may be the Beta test bed for all the other Astartes Primarchs.

He calls Ghota his son, and Ghota was able to take down five Astartes single handedly.

Normal thunder warrior commanders were called Primarchs but Arik might be something flawed but very special. If he was able to save himself and Ghota from deterioration due to his genius who knows where he may have escaped to.

I chose my username based on him. One of the best minor characters in the horus heresy.

Regarding the primarch comparison, the points you've mentioned are tantalising. IIRC the psychic aura was like looking into the sun for Atharva (I think that's his name, the thousand sons psyker in Outcast Dead). Ghota had a striking aura but not nearly of that magnitude.

His intellect must've been formidable for him to cure his own deterioration with astartes geneseed.

It's all speculative, but the way he is written he's no ordinary thunder warrior. Also take into account that he manged to escape and survive for decades (or even a century) under the noses of the custodes, and I imagine the custodes would've hunted him down had they known where he was, or known he even still lived, given his legendary reputation. Surely he'd be considered a threat, even if a minor one.

EDIT: I also have to mention the (purely speculative) theory that Autek Mor of the iron hands was actually a thunder warrior too, given Alan Blighs description of him (rumored bloodline impurity, instability, outcast status and bad relationship with his primarch Ferrus) and his HH stats (Strength and Toughness 5).

So, either Arik and Ghota remained on Terra or they went probably to Mars or the Red Talons to hide and heal until their eventual return.

 agurus1 wrote:
I believe in the FW black books there is a reference that in the early days of the conquest of the solar system, the warhounds legion had to storm a complex/space station that had been taken over by escaped Thunder Warriors. the thunder warriors were all killed but were apparently taking down 10-20 Legionnaires each before they were overwhelmed (the tight confines of the station likely helped them. So there is evidence that some thunder warriors not only escaped the culling on Terra, but somehow made it off planet.

They were killing 3-4 not 10-20

Fair enough, it’s been a long time since I read that piece of lore it probably got inflated in my memory. Anyways it does prove that some Thunder Warriors made it off terra.

I haven't read it in a while but isn't it a space jail ? If yes, they wouldn't have make it "off world" they would just have been arrested lol

They were killing 3-4 not 10-20

That's still pretty impressive when you think about it.

I haven't read it in a while but isn't it a space jail ? If yes, they wouldn't have make it "off world" they would just have been arrested lol

I'm not familiar at all w/the story in question, but that's pretty hilarious if true.

"Commander we ... we've uh ... stumbled across an enemy stronghold!"

"Understood seargent. STORM IT AND KILL EVERYTHING!"

Meanwhile it's just a prison ... classic World Eaters.

 godardc wrote:
I haven't read it in a while but isn't it a space jail ? If yes, they wouldn't have make it "off world" they would just have been arrested lol

It’s not a prison, some kind of space installation that was one of the first battles off terra for the war hounds. They were sent to pacify the non-compliant humans there, and ended up fighting thunder warriors that were hidden among the regular humans there. A fair amount as well from the way the story went.