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I'm curious if you guys/girls think the Souped-up Speshul upgrade is worth the CP?

Mek Speshul: 24" Assault9 S5 AP-2 D1

Souped-Up Speshul: 30" Assault15 S4 AP-1 D1 (cost 1 CP)

Thinking about upgrading my Boomdakka Snazzwagon which I plan use as a flanking vehicle to clear screens and field guns. The extra 6 shots would be helpful but they do come at the cost of both reduced power and a CP which could be used for "Drive-by Krumpin".

-Matt

Remember that the CP you spent is basically 2 shots extra average. Orks aren't really hurting when it comes to creating CP to spend, but it's something to think about. I'm not very versed on the Kustom Jobz though.

Mathematically it seems poor. The reduced chance to wound and lower AP on _all_ hits doesn't seem like a good trade for about 2 extra hits.

The extra range is nice, but I definitely don't think I'd spend CP to do it. If it were a few points, maybe? Without the strength and AP downgrade, I could definitely see it, but with it, it feels like a loss.

Its too late at night here to run the math, but factoring in the dakka rule, it should be fairly straightforward to mathhammer out the correct answer. (My guess is yes against guard equivalents and daemons, no against everybody else, so generally no)

A bit of math tells us that:

Against GEQ it is a 38% gain.
Against MEQ it is 17% worse.

I would probably pass.

Spoletta wrote:
A bit of math tells us that:

Against GEQ it is a 38% gain.
Against MEQ it is 17% worse.

I would probably pass.

Against T6-7 it would depend on the save of the unit. T8 is probably a loss (don't know without mathing it).

Its marginal to the point where you wonder if the S and AP reduction are a misprint. Be interesting to see if it gets FAQed.

If it was something like 20 shots it might be interesting.

It depends on your opponent and your army. Depending on what your opponent has and whether you are in lack of anti-light infantry or anti-heavy infantry it might be a good or bad idea to upgrade it respectively. In addition, you have to consider whether you are losing out on a better upgrade for another unit. To me it seems a waste to spend CP on it almost no matter what, it's a cheap little thing and if I know my opponent has spent CP to make it more effective I'll take it out relatively quickly. Unless making it a distraction Carnifex is part of your plan then the upgrade won't be worth it.

15 shots is 167% effective compared to shots 9. That means the damage will be increased as long as the modifiers from the worse AP and Strength don't multiplicate to less than 60% you'll get a final value of at least 100% meaning the same damage as the original weapon. How much more damage you expect the weapon to do to be worth an extra CP is also dependent on your access to CP and the ways in which your army can spend it.

S4 is 100% effective against T1-3 and 6-7, 80% against T4, 67% against T5, 50% against T8-9 compared to S5.

AP-1 is 100% effective against 6+/7+ Sv, 83% against 5+, 80% against 4+, 75% against 3+, 67% against 2+, 50% against 1+ compared to AP-2.

Pink Horrors, Cultists, Hive Tyrants.
T1,2,3,6 or 7 and 6+/7+ Sv = 167% damage
Infantry Squads.
T1,2,3,6 or 7 and 5+ Sv = 139% damage
Scions, Fire Warriors, Skitarii Rangers, Doomsday Arks.
T1,2,3,6 or 7 and 4+ Sv = 134% damage
Battle Sisters, Rhinos.
T1,2,3,6 or 7 and 3+ Sv = 125% damage
Lord Discordants on Helstalkers.
T1,2,3,6 or 7 and 2+ Sv = 112% damage
Boyz, Plaguebearers, Deathwatch Veterans with stormshields.
T4 and 6+ or 7+ Sv = 134% damage
Intercessors, Chaos Space Marines, Immortals.
T4 and 3+ Sv = 100% damage
Aggressors.
T5 and 3+ Sv = 84% damage
Assault Centurions.
T5 and 2+ Sv = 75% damage
Knights with 3+/4++.
T8-9 and 6+/7+ Sv = 83% damage
Plagueburst Crawlers, Knights with 3+/5++, Exorcists.
T8-9 and 3+ Sv = 63% damage

 vict0988 wrote:
It depends on your opponent and your army. Depending on what your opponent has and whether you are in lack of anti-light infantry or anti-heavy infantry it might be a good or bad idea to upgrade it respectively. In addition, you have to consider whether you are losing out on a better upgrade for another unit. To me it seems a waste to spend CP on it almost no matter what, it's a cheap little thing and if I know my opponent has spent CP to make it more effective I'll take it out relatively quickly. Unless making it a distraction Carnifex is part of your plan then the upgrade won't be worth it.

Id actually prefer my opponent to ignore my buggies.

The Buggies (Snazzwagon and Scrapjet) tactical purpose is to attempt to flank my opponent and clear a place for a unit of Meganobz to deep strike behind enemy lines. The "distraction" would be the frontal attack of two full units of Boyz and Two Deff Dreads with Orkymatic Pistons (+3" move and reroll advance + Evil Sunz bonus move).

-matt

You pay a CP to make a bad gun slightly better against the one thing orks don't need help killing - light infantry.

If you just proxy your snazzwagon as KBB (weapons roughly match up), you get a datasheet that is better at killing any possible target, for 0 extra points and no CP.

 Jidmah wrote:
You pay a CP to make a bad gun slightly better against the one thing orks don't need help killing - light infantry.

If you just proxy your snazzwagon as KBB (weapons roughly match up), you get a datasheet that is better at killing any possible target, for 0 extra points and no CP.

I will get a KBB at some point (I like Ork buggies) but in this case I chose the Snazzwagon for the -1 to hit from ranged weapons and more ranged dakka. I'm hoping it will survive a little longer in order to achieve my goals.

as an afterthought, calling an assault9 S5 AP-2 D1 gun a "bad gun" seems a bit much. Though if I'm lucky and my opponent thinks its a bad vehicle then he will perhaps ignore it.

-matt

My post wasn't hyperbole, the snazzwagon has *less* ranged dakka than the KBB.

When you do the math for both buggies, even under perfect circumstances for the snazzwagon (light infantry in cover in burna bottle range), the KBB will kill almost twice as much.
According to vict0988's numbers, the kustom job doesn't even fully close that gap, and actually makes the buggy even more terrible against other targets.
And it's not like the KBB is some super-powerful unit that outshines everything else, it's a model just barely worth playing which doesn't get a second though from anyone preparing for a tournament.

-1 to hit on the snazzwagon is all but irrelevant, because it does so little damage, your opponent can just safely ignore it all game and it won't ever make its points back.

If a unit is not worth shooting doesn't mean it's good. It means that you should have brought something that is worth shooting.

my question was pretty well answered, "NO" its not worth the CP.

Thank you
-matt