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Is there any fun to be had with Cypher and/or the Fallen?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in de
Toothy 3rd Gen True Hybrid





I mean, not every model in the game can or has to be "competitive", I get that. Some fringe models are only there to perform one stupid trick, that you have to build the entire army around to make it work, and even then it will only happen once in a lifetime, if all the stars align, and isn't even really powerful enough to actually win you the game, if it does. It's a joke to be brought for beer-and-pretzel games, and enjoy the pretty model and the nice background story.
Thing is, with Cypher and his Fallen, I feel like I am missing the joke.
The Fallen are just a 1:1 carbon copy of a Chosen unit, with LESS options. They are 1 point cheaper, but lack the hatred for Imperial forces, and worst of all, a number of keywords, which makes the idea of including them in a Battleforged army almost impossible. Cypher has a teeny tiny bit of extra dakka at very short range, that's it. So what's up with that?
The "gimmick" seems to be, that they also have the Imperium keyword, but I can't see them as doing anything more interesting as an ally in an Imperial soup build, than in a Chaos soup build. I even checked the Dark Angels codex to see if there is any real in-game effect, that represents how he messes with their heads, but I didn't see anything.
OK, sometimes I am a really bad reader, and maybe I failed to look at the right place. So, is there somewhere, anywhere, any interesting interaction, that I am missing?

   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

You aren't really missing anything. They're something GW liked enough to include as a distinct option for its own sake, but not enough to actually design any real use or function around.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





The only real reason to bring them is to troll your friendly local DA player. If you really really want to push it for a niche use, you can spam plasma guns that can overcharge without needing a lord to babysit them. With no double tap, fighting twic, or stackable negative hit modifiers, there’s not really a reason to rake Fallen over chosen.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

In the second Vigilus book, the Fallen did get a specialist detachment. It basically gives them access to Chaos Rhinos and Sorcerers plus a couple of very situational stratagems. It's not good or anything, but it's there.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You're missing nothing. They're absolutely terrible, a solid candidate for worst army in the game. Cypher in particular is just utter junk in this edition, which is a bit odd considering how much he's played up in the lore.

They're just a huge swing and a miss in 8th edition, for reasons that are rather unclear.

   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Are the other 'mini-Factions' out there as poorly-supported rules-wise?

'Cause it kinda seems - to me, from the outside looking in - like GW expanded their range with a bunch of KEYWORDS and almost immediately regretted it.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
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Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Excommunicatus wrote:
Are the other 'mini-Factions' out there as poorly-supported rules-wise?

'Cause it kinda seems - to me, from the outside looking in - like GW expanded their range with a bunch of KEYWORDS and almost immediately regretted it.


Eeeeeeh, I'd say fallen are uniquely badly supported. Maybe the BSF RnH models suck more. but I've acutally had a surprisingly fun time with the Rogue Trader guys in my mixed imperial army. They even have a cute mechanic where they've got like, really really really gakky stratagems, but if you make the captain lady your warlord you get like 4CP to spend on just those cute little signature moves, like teleporting your one little admech dude, or getting reroll wounds on your 20pt sword lady.

Inquisition is also similarly amusing, in its own little way. I play with them fairly often. Assassins are also fun.

Overall I have a real great time with my goofy, cobbled-together imperial mixed force in narrative games.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
 
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