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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Just a casual gamer being forced into making semi-competitive lists due to playing against a friend who a) puts all of his time into reading tactics etc. and b) play tau.
I decided to put together a bit of a goofy list that sounds cool in my head, but I just wanted to run it by some more experienced players to hopefully fix a few of the main errors (of which there are many, no doubt).

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [30 PL, 7CP, 479pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 2x Dark Disciple: 2x Close combat weapon

+ HQ +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 72pts]: Accursed crozius, Bolt pistol, Dark Zealotry, Frag & Krak grenades, Illusory Supplication, No Chaos Mark

Sorcerer [6 PL, -1CP, 88pts]: 6. Faceless Commander, Bolt pistol, Force stave, Frag & Krak grenades, No Chaos Mark, Smite, We Are Alpharius

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 80pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 19x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 72pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Combi-bolter, Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ Heavy or Special Weapon: Autocannon, Bolt pistol

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 82pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Combi-plasma, Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ Heavy or Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 75pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark, Smoke Launchers

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [28 PL, 1CP, 521pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 117pts]: 1. I am Alpharius, Chainfist, Combi-plasma, Mindveil, No Chaos Mark, Warlord

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminators [10 PL, 179pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma

Helbrute [6 PL, 105pts]: Helbrute fist, No Chaos Mark, Power scourge

Helbrute [6 PL, 120pts]: Missile launcher, No Chaos Mark, Twin lascannon

++ Total: [58 PL, 8CP, 1,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

My general thoughts/ strategy was to have a bit of a random but flexible back line, with the apostle and cultist blob either staying put or advancing up the field for objectives. The terminators and chaos lord will deep strike in to either snipe a poorly positioned character or maybe a broadside. The psyker can then teleport to the termies w/ faceless commander to cast some spells (not sure which ones yet). I don't think it's a very strong list but I'm not quite sure how to improve it.

The list my opponent seems most attached to is a very basic fire warrior/ single broadside gunline and then a big blob of alpha striking nastiness (coldstar, crisis suits, stealth suits, and a BUNCH of shield drones). All my previous lists have either spent the whole game dealing with the alpha striking blob and failing to get objectives, or have just been crippled in the first turn.

Sorry about all that text.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/06 01:33:45


 
   
Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle




Ohio

I feel your CSM's are gonna get blasted away first turn. Thats what I would do. I'm not worried about cultist. Termies waiting to drop in. As soon as I'm in range or, if I have some lascannons they are gone. That leaves the cultist gone in turn 3 with some focus fire. I would try to drop some cultist and give the CSM a Rhino.

"Look upon me and know that I can slay you at will. You have no defence save one: to look into the darkness at the back of your own mind. There, you will find Father Nurgle waiting to offer you life in return for your submission. Deny him, and you are mine." — Typhus the Traveller, Herald of Nurgle

9,500-CSM
3,500-GK
Cryx
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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





So I took out one of the cultist squads, changed the missile CSM squad to a plasma squad, and added a rhino. The two CSM squads will move with the rhino and cap objectives, the helbrutes are there to hopefully draw some shooting away from the rhino, but now I feel like the apostle isn't really doing much. Should I switch the apostle and cultists for another CSM squad and maybe another chaos lord? And should I keep the helbrutes?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/06 01:33:26


 
   
Made in sg
Been Around the Block






Seeing that you have not marked your stuff, you can consider slaanesh for your termis allowing them to double tap with endless cacophony.

The hellbrutes i would consider switching up to some other stuff like say havocs maybe?

I generally prefer a jumplord instead of a termi lord though
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





I can understand replacing the helbrutes with havocs, but why is a jump lord better? Wouldn't it just make him easier to kill? Also, if I replace the helbrutes with havocs I'll lose a CP. I'll have a play around on battlescribe, and I'll see what I can do.

edit: what should I do with the dark apostle? If the CSMs are in the rhino, he's only really giving a buff to the 19 cultists, which I think is maybe a bit of a waste. I could replace him with a regular lord to give the helbrutes/ havocs some rerolls to hit?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/07 04:14:21


 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Havocs are infantry, they can be protected by conceal. They cant be targeted unless they are the closest visible unit. A JP chaos lord is more mobile, his movement is always 12", its not random 3D6, with mindveil. He is only easier to kill if you give your opponent an opportunity to target him. Also, its possible to make him -5 to hit, this can also be done for the termi lord. I would also give the sorcerer a JP. Not a fan of dark apostle, he can only pray once, whereas a sorcerer can cast two psychic powers. I like to use warp lord on my sorcerer, to reroll 1s.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/07 08:50:41


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Ferrous695 wrote:
what should I do with the dark apostle? If the CSMs are in the rhino, he's only really giving a buff to the 19 cultists, which I think is maybe a bit of a waste. I could replace him with a regular lord to give the helbrutes/ havocs some rerolls to hit?


If you want to lean on your CSM, you could combine them into a single unit and give them and your Sorcerer the Mark of Tzeentch. Split your cultists into two squads to fill troop slots.


Between the Sorcerer and the Dark Apostle, you can adjust their buffs to various matchups:
- Illusory Supplication + Weaver of Fates for a 4++ invul save at -1 to hit from the Alpha Legion trait
- Weaver of Fates for a 5++ invul and Benediction of Darkness for a combined -2 to hit with the Alpha Legion trait
- +1/+2 to hit with a combination of Prescience and Warp-Sight Plea

Tau rely on hitting their markers, so bringing their chance to hit those down by -2 can be very effective.

Use The Great Sorcerer stratagem to further support them with Wartptime/Death hex. Veterans of the long war makes sure they consistently wound stuff. Conceal works nicely with small units of cultists, especially if they also have a 5++ from Illusory supplication andd -1 to hit from the Alpha Legion trait.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/05/07 12:17:38


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Made in de
Toothy 3rd Gen True Hybrid





Just an idea for your termie lord: if you give him mark of slaanesh, headhunter and viper's bite, he has a decent chance to earn his pay the moment he drops, by taking out the opponent's warlord or some other costly buff character in his first round of shooting with endless cacaphony. If the enemy warlord has too good an invuln save, you can still take out some other key char or some elite infantry without missing out too much.
You can then spend a CP on We a Alpharius to give someone else a Warlord trait, too.


Oh, you have We are Alpharius, you just didn't specify the trait. You could give the Viper's bite/Headhunter to your Sorcerer instead, if you are OK with making him Slaanesh, and putting him in Termie Armor, so he can benefit from Bolter Discipline/Cacaphony while deepstriking. He is a bit less of a marksman, but has a chance to drop invulns with Deadhex before shooting.

Mindveil is a meh relic in my book. Increasing mobility is OK, increasing it randomly and only on a single model makes it worse. Maaaaybe on a Demon Prince, in an army with a different game plan then yours.

Viper's Bite (or Hydra's Teeth against character Dreadnaughts, Ork bosses, Hive Tyrants) in combo with Termie armor, Headhunter and Slaanesh/Cacaphony is just a pretty solid boost towards your atrition play early on. Up to 8 shots with a decent profile, coming out of deepstrike, before anyone can react, is usually just some solid money in the banks before stuff can go sour.
If you positively know your opponent wants to use a lot of stratagems, Hydra's Wail can mess their plans up, but I really think those Relic bolt weapons are top notch.

Hmm, OK, I didn't see that you are up against T'au and Shield Drones are a thang. I still think counterstriking with Termies is the way I would try to go, w/ Bolter Discipline/Cacaphony to wipe those annoying drones first.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/05/07 13:41:30


   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Thanks everyone for your help, I'll be playing a game against my friend today so I'll let you know how it goes. I'll send the fixed battlescribe as well once I get around to it.
   
Made in sg
Been Around the Block






Good luck my man. I know you will have played your game. But for future references, using the hydra's wail relic is really good option to me. I have made many opponents rethink their strategy for the round just by doing it.

Hit it early vs tau when you know they want to use strats to up markerlights and stuff and you just might get lucky and force them to spend more cp than its worth
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





My fixed list: (I'm pretty sure I forgot some things, but hopefully you get the idea)

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [59 PL, 7CP, 999pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: 1. I am Alpharius, Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, No Chaos Mark, Warlord

Chaos Lord with Jump Pack [6 PL, -1CP, 100pts]: 3. Headhunter, Combi-bolter, Frag & Krak grenades, Mark of Slaanesh, Power axe, Viper's Bite, We Are Alpharius

Sorcerer [6 PL, 88pts]: Bolt pistol, Force stave, Frag & Krak grenades, Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Smite, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 143pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Frag & Krak grenades
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ Heavy or Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun
. Marine w/ Heavy or Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminators [10 PL, 175pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-plasma

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 110pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. 4x Havoc w/ autocannon: 4x Autocannon, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Havocs [7 PL, 160pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. 2x Havoc w/ lascannon: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Lascannon
. 2x Havoc w/ missile launcher: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Missile launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 69pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, No Chaos Mark, Smoke Launchers

++ Total: [59 PL, 7CP, 999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


I started playing a game with my friend today but we've only done one round so far because we're far too busy.
A quick summary:
I took first turn, where I moved (and then warptimed) towards the other side of the field (I was hoping to draw most of his firepower, while relying on the -2 to hit from legion trait and smoke launchers to waste most of it)
I managed to take out 10 fire warriors with my havocs, but didn't expect a lot on the first turn because my marines were in the rhino and my termies/ jump lord were chilling somewhere else.
My opponent managed to drop in right next to my sorcerer and kill him with a much more expensive coldstar (possibly poor positioning on my behalf), but other than that managed to take out 4 cultists, 2 havocs and 4 wounds off my rhino.

Basically, I'm happy with the havocs, but I found them a little squishy when my opponent didn't have much else to shoot at. It'd be nice if the cultists could benefit from the legion trait, and hopefully my opponents luck rolls decrease in the next few rounds.
[Thumb - End of round 1.PNG]

   
Made in sg
Been Around the Block






oof does not feel good to lose a psyker early on. but the majority of ur stuff should make up for it. remember to use the alpha strats if you need to reposition or throw ur opponents stuff off position
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Ferrous695 wrote:

I took first turn, where I moved (and then warptimed) towards the other side of the field (I was hoping to draw most of his firepower, while relying on the -2 to hit from legion trait and smoke launchers to waste most of it)


Any vehicle, except dreadnoughts and helbrutes, doesnt benefit from legion traits.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 05:57:51


 
   
Made in de
Toothy 3rd Gen True Hybrid





Every unit other than Cultists should really have a Mark, and if there is nothing else to do, give them Mark of Slaanesh, so they are viable for Cacaphony. The mark doesn't cost anything (you are not trying to summon Daemons after all, which would be the only case where an opportunity cost might arise, as it would lower your choice of hosts), it gives you the option to shoot twice for 2 CP, if needed, what's not to like about that?

   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Vyrullax wrote:oof does not feel good to lose a psyker early on. but the majority of ur stuff should make up for it. remember to use the alpha strats if you need to reposition or throw ur opponents stuff off position


Yeah, 70ish points for a single use of warptime is a bit annoying, an invuln save would have been nice. I tried to use the ambush strategem that lets me shoot at enemy units dropping in, but I did a massive total of 0 damage somehow (I think my opponent rolled all 5s and 6s on his save ), and I was going to use the 12" deepstrike distance strat but it wouldn't have helped I don't think. I'm really enjoying playing Alpha legion though, they have some fun strats and traits.

p5freak wrote:
Ferrous695 wrote:

I took first turn, where I moved (and then warptimed) towards the other side of the field (I was hoping to draw most of his firepower, while relying on the -2 to hit from legion trait and smoke launchers to waste most of it)


Any vehicle, except dreadnoughts and helbrutes, doesnt benefit from legion traits.


Oops, my mistake. I haven't played with vehicles in my chaos lists before, so I'll have to keep that in mind.

AuntHerbert wrote:Every unit other than Cultists should really have a Mark, and if there is nothing else to do, give them Mark of Slaanesh, so they are viable for Cacaphony. The mark doesn't cost anything (you are not trying to summon Daemons after all, which would be the only case where an opportunity cost might arise, as it would lower your choice of hosts), it gives you the option to shoot twice for 2 CP, if needed, what's not to like about that?


Yeah, I forgot a few things because I was making the list in a bit of a hurry. I'll fix that for next time.

Thankyou all for the feedback, it's been really helpful. I'll let you know if I win when we get around to finishing the game.


   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Final update: finished the game, and I won. We finished round 4 and he conceded because he had no way to beat me in victory points.

Here is my current ranking of the units in the list just from that game:

S) Chaos Lord w/ jump pack. Headhunter and Vipers Bite are both amazing at taking out infantry HQ, and is still able to hold up against tougher units with it's solid profile.

A) Terminators, Cultists. The terminators doing well didn't really surprise me, I've used them to great effect before. But due to a series of strange rolls, the cultists easily made back 4 times there points value. After all of my havocs failed to do a single wound to a set of crisis suits, my cultists somehow killed 2 . They also managed to hold some key objectives for far longer than they should have due to some bad rolls and bad decisions from my opponent.

B) Chaos Marines. Pretty solid, did a fair bit of work.

C) Havocs. I want to put them higher but due to a series of bad rolls they just didn't really do anything. A moment of serious frustration was using the Flakk Missile strategem (hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s with the Chaos Lord, D3 mortal wounds) and rolling 2 consecutive 1s to hit. I feel that if my rolls were closer to average for my havocs they would have done a lot more.

I didn't rank the Rhino, Chaos Lord or Sorceror because they either played a purely support role, or they were shot up in the first turn. I'd probably put the rhino and lord with the units they were supporting in terms of rank then.


Overall, I'm quite happy with the list. Thankyou everyone for your help, it obviously payed off.

   
Made in sg
Been Around the Block






Good job on the win! Another victory for the dark gods. There is no hard and fast rule how to play and what each individual wants out of a game is subjective. As long as you are having fun thats all that matters!
   
 
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