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This question has been bothering me for so long that I actually went out and bought Shield of Baal: Leviathan just to look up the lore on Aeros. Now that I finally have it let's discuss.

p.88
"Dhrost's metadossiers detailed several incidents of bio-fleets assailing Imperial gas giants. Each time they left nothing but a smattering of barren debris in their wake. The Tyranid race would devour anything, not just flesh and bone, in its constant quest to multiply and consume."

Is this saying Tyranids have consumed multiple Gas Giants? So it's pretty much official that Tyranids nom Gas Giants? Or am I misinterpreting this?

Rest of the stuff on Aeros is talking about the actual battle, and at the end of this supplement it says Aeros transformed into a planet-sized miasma of poison filled to the brim with spores, both microscopic to enormous.

So the quote I put in the 1st post, it's undeniably saying that the Tyranids completely nommed multiple Imperial Gas Giants? For sure?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Giving a swarm of locusts gestalt sentience and genetic editing still doesn't teach it the merits of sustainable farming. Which is to say looking at is as 'why don't the Tyranids just do X' is somewhat missing the point; viewed from a rational free-thinking standpoint the whole idea of devouring planets is nonsensical in the first place. But we have no real indication, and many to the contrary, that Tyranids operate on that level of thought at all.

There is no point in "farming". Farming is the act of turning indigestible things like grass, soil, and sunlight into something digestible like vegetables and beef. But since Tyranids are able to consume grass, soil, and even metals and rocks directly, they don't need to farm anything.

Voss wrote:
That... isn't what farming is. Farming is about making your food supply local, and as efficient and predictable as possible, rather than ranging over miles and miles foraging and gathering (and hoping food will be out there). Foraging has a very high energy cost, and a low return. Farming is also, very importantly, repeatable. And with time, experience and technology, you can get significantly better at the return of your time and energy investment.

Long term, the tyranid 'food' strategy means death. Even the worst farming techniques (that strip the soil of nutrients) allow people to return decades later. Tyranids have no such recourse.

And with more technology you can turn the very soil the crops grow on and the very air livestock breath into food directly without engaging in farming. Which means there's no point in wasting time and energy growing crops.

You seem to think that farming is indefinite and infinite. It's not. It's actually quite an inefficient cycle wasting way too much energy in each iteration and the cycle continues solely by receiving more energy from the sun. In the end, the whole "farming" system is just recycling matter on earth to turn sunlight into kinetic energy like a really inefficient solar panel.

Tyranids have the right of it. Turn everything into more Tyranid flesh. Because to them eating Tyranid flesh is more efficient than eating soil, or using sunlight to grow crops on the soil and then eating the crops. And they will only starve when the stars die out too because Tyranids should be capable of creating super efficient lifeforms that can subsist solely off of sunlight being the impossible bio-tech species they are.

Voss wrote:
They'd be a lot more effective with 'nest' systems and a farming pattern supplemented by 'hunting', and it would be far more narratively interesting if they actually had a stake in the galaxy rather than just an unstoppable, unending wave of nonsense.

The hunting model doesn't work here because unlike humans, Tyranids can eat everything. Us Humans gotta make sure we don't hunt things to extinction because if the things we eat go extinct, we die of starvation, and the grass and other stuff our prey ate become the sole survivors.

I don't think using any living creature model is a good idea with Tyranids. I like to thing of them as machines except with organics. Like if we had a killer robot species, they'd turn 100% of matter into space constructs be it space stations, battleships, etc. and just move on to planet to planet until 100% of matter is part of their ring worlds or dyson spheres. Tyranids are the same. They turn as much matter into Tyranid flesh. Not 100% because they can't eat bedrock for some reason.

So imo, farming, hunting, foraging, etc. models don't work with Tyranids because those models require indigestible things made digestible through a "middle species".

Patriarch Phyrx wrote:
Correction, the gargantuan moon-sized planet eaters that do eat bedrock and everything else just haven’t arrived yet. Leviathan is a Lictor, just wait for the galactic scale Haruapex

Until GW makes this official I will be forever tormented for wanting it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I disagree that they would be more interesting, I think they would be less interesting and the setting would be less for it. By being a massive alien force that does not care they fill an antagonist role in the 40k setting that is difficult to fill otherwise, and they do it with remarkably plausible motivations.

I agree. Despite prefering robots over bugs, I can't stop myself from coming back to Tyranids over and over and over because of what they do, how they do it, and because they're the only ones in the setting doing it. Which is convert all matter and energy into Tyranid flesh, and using that flesh to create pure weaponized monsters and absolutely nothing else. So saying they should act like every other faction in the setting and just settle down and farm is something I heavily disagree with. If anything it would make them significantly more boring instead of interesting.
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Iracundus wrote:
Everything the Tyranids do is arguably driven by that pitiless calculation of reward vs cost. That's why I dislike that whole stuff about the Hive Mind having some sort of vendetta against the Blood Angels.

Lack of sufficient reward explains multiple Tyranid behaviors, such as why they avoid Necron tomb worlds on dead worlds. Tyranids can and have overwhelmed Necron tombs on worlds that have active biospheres, but they stay clear of dead worlds because there would be little return in both biomass and genetic material for the effort expended. Similarly, the Tyranids stop at bedrock because at some point the Hive Mind has concluded that beyond that point it would be more efficient to go look for a different target.

The Tyranids seem content to pick off the weak and vulnerable worlds because those offer most reward for the least effort. Though they may target highly defended worlds from time to time, such as Gryphonne IV, for every high value world a far higher number of no-name worlds are attacked and devoured. The Tyranids seem to accept losing the battle for a big world here and there while quietly winning 9 other lower profile worlds elsewhere. That is how the splinter fleets of Kraken regrew despite Kraken's defeat at Ichar IV.

As for why the Tyranids preferentially target life bearing worlds: The Tyranids have 2 needs.

1. Biomass
2. Genetic material

Life bearing worlds meet both needs, while inorganic sources of CHNOPS don't. The other reason life bearing worlds may be targeted and stripped bare is time. It may be quicker to strip a world that has biomass than making your own biomass from inorganic sources. If one could consume 10 worlds of biomass in the time to make the equivalent of 1 world's worth of biomass yourself from inorganic sources, then stripping bare would be favored.

It's the same reason why predation exists in the first place as opposed to all life synthesizing their own stuff like plants. When you eat another creature, you get far more organic material in an easily utilized format already whereas synthesizing it yourself is slow by comparison.

One of the books outright says Tyranids are eating less and less of the planet's mass and targetting Admech installations for refined metals. They eat less because either they're afraid and running, or they like eating humans more than rocks so they're going for the delicious humans first.

My "issues" with Tyranids will be satisfied if they can digest 100% of a planet but don't do it for other reasons. And my "issues" with Tyranids will worsen to the point I might lose all interest in the species if it turns out they are incapable of eating bedrock and such which multiple video games allude to.
Gladius says Tyranids trapped on a planet ate everything down to bedrock, but then stopped there and just endlessly get killed and re-killed by the planet over and over with less biomass each time.
Gladius says Tyranids can't eat Necron metal.
Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 has planets labeled "indigestible"

Ok, so according to the internet
4% of matter in the galaxy is stars
12% of matter in the galaxy is gas
0% of matter is non-gas like asteroids, rocks, etc.
84% of matter is darkmatter which is not proven to exist, just accepted.

The earth's crust makes up less than 1% of mass of the entire planet. Since bedrock is not that deep Tyranids consume much less than 1% of mass of a planet.

So it is accurate to say that Tyranids that don't consume gas giants consume around 0% of mass of the entire galaxy

That is pathetic.

But with the Shield of Baal: Leviathan's lore, we now know that Tyranids consume 12% of matter in the galaxy. And if we assume dark matter doesn't exist, this figure jumps up to 66.7% of the galaxy.

But still, being only able to consume less than 1% of a planet's mass is pathetic. And no mention about stars.

So I really hope that GW does eventually release lore that says Tyranids make bio-dyson spheres or some other way to consume stars, and a giant planet eating tyranid hive ship exists to eat more than 0.1% of a planet's mass.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^That seems like an arbitrary metric, considering that the ability to re-convert all life in the galaxy into one giant organism is already monumental.

Is it though? A planet's crust is less than 1% of the planet. How much of that is organic life? Non-gas or stars make up 0% of the galaxy. And how many of non-gas or stars have organic life on them?

I don't think it's monumental for a millions year old race. Maybe for a 40,000 year old race but not billions.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Uhm, the Tyranids aren't trying to consume as much matter as possible. Saying they are pathetic based on a metric that is coincidental does not make any sense.

If it's because it's not their goal then you're right, they're not pathetic. Because they can but don't.

If it's because they are incapable then no, you're wrong. they're pathetic. Because they can't even if they wanted to.

The video games suggest it's the latter : (

 Insectum7 wrote:
Yeah, well, let's see you do it! :p

Necrons can do it (crypteks can transmute any matter into any matter). Which means eventually, like within a million years, Tau and Chaos can do it. IoM can too if they stop being ******** and advance tech.

Necrons and Tyranids are supposed to be at the end of their technological prowess right? They can't make anything better. So one can utilize 100% of matter (necrons have dyson spheres. ask Trazyn), the other can only utilize 0% of matter. Well, with Gas giants I get its bumped up to 75% of matter.

I don't know. That's how I feel. One race can utilize trees, rocks, and lava. The other can only use trees. Can't help but think one is intelligent and the other is a dumb brute.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Someone could use trees and rocks to make a stone weapon, another can use trees to make a 3-story mansion complete with furniture and paintings on parchment. By your logic, the first is more advanced.

Except we're not talking about a stone weapon. We're talking about a stone castle vs a wooden castle. Necron tech beats Tyranid tech in every way. Living Metal > Tyranid Flesh. We can't compare Necron production speed with Tyranid production speed because afaik Necron production speed is never mentioned other than their scarabs.

Necrons got world engines, Aether orbs, Dyson spheres, Magnovitrum or whatever that blows up gas giants, Celestial Orrey. Tyranids need to wait until GW advances the plot in the next decade for a real non-scouting hive fleet to arrive.

 Andersp90 wrote:
Not cannon.

I thought so too, but GW is incredibly protective of their IP. Like really, really, reaaaaaallly protective of their IP. They blew up their deal with Blizzard because of lore issues. So it's safe to say GW fully controls the lore of WH40k video games. Even if it's not canon, if it's not true it doesn't make it into video games. And Gladius and BFGA2 both say Tyranids can't digest beyond bedrock. At least with what they have in the galaxy right now.

Still hoping for planet and star eater tyranids.

 Andersp90 wrote:
No. The tyranids are constantly improving existing designs, and coming up with entirely new ones. One could take the maleceptor as an example.

From 8th edition:

"The Maleceptor is the purest embodiment of the Hive Mind’s psychic power, a living vessel for the gestalt consciousness that rules the Tyranid race. As it advances ominously into battle, warp energy spears from its eyeless cranium, vapourising all in its path. Those fortunate enough to survive the monster’s keening psychic screams are spitted upon colossal talons, their torn bodies hurled aside. Bullets and energy bolts fired at the Maleceptor are consumed by a formidable psychic barrier, or deflect harmlessly from its thickly armoured hide. In response, ethereal pseudopods reach forth from the creature’s glistening brain-arrays. The merest brush from one of these psychic tendrils overloads the victim’s consciousness with a fraction of the Hive Mind’s unimaginable energies, detonating their skull in an eruption of blood and cerebral matter.
Maleceptors are the response of the Hive Mind to some of the more psychically gifted races that populate the galaxy"

That's engineering not science. Discovery of integrated circuits in silicon is science. Using that to create every electronic thing in the modern world is engineering. In other words the Tyrant Guard and Maleceptor is the Hive Mind using their tech in a different way to make different units. They didn't invent anything new.

They're a millions year old race that consumed multiple galaxies. If they haven't consumed all the planets in those multiple galaxies then it's safe to say their tech path can't do that. But we don't know that yet. Planet Eater Tyranids are still a possibility.

 Andersp90 wrote:
Yet, if the necrons are to have a chance of beating the tyranids, their enitre race will have to reunite.. So, does that mean that the necrons are pathetic?

No. Pathetic means helpless. Tau aren't helpless because they're making technological leaps that could one day let them surpass tyranids despite their inferior number. Necrons surpass Tau in both tech and numbers. In fact they're as numerous as IoM. Necrons are probably the strongest faction in the setting right now.

If Tyranids cannot consume anything below bedrock, then they're "pathetic" because if push comes to shove, they can't improve and suddenly start eating bedrock. If they can't that is. Still though, Gas giants are 75% of non-darkmatter matter.

 Insectum7 wrote:
That's great. In order for a species to be 'not pathetic' it has to eat rocks.

More like how much of the periodic table of elements and percentage of mass on a planet or galaxy they can utilize at the end of their tech path.

 Andersp90 wrote:
They used to be, yes. Now they are selling to anyone willing to buy their IP.. https://www.idownloadblog.com/2014/04/03/warhammer-40k-in-app-store/

Tyranids being unable to leave a planet in gladius, and tyranid shipyards in BFG2, are just two examples of stuff that are at odds with the codex lore..

They can't leave gladius because gladius is a sentient planet thing with a warp storm that keeps the tyranids trapped. It's pretty clear that the warp storm is preventing the tyranids from leaving and that if it weren't for the warp storm the Tyranids would leave. Which means they can make hive ships on the ground.

 Andersp90 wrote:
Where is that stated?

One of the codices. Too lazy to look it up again. exact quote was "as numerous as they are".

 Andersp90 wrote:
Yea, this was a waste of time..

Right, so if people don't agree with each other the whole thing was a waste of time. So I wasted my time talking to you. Gotcha.

 Overread wrote:
I'd remind people

I think it's one person not people.

I agree. Capillary towers and Anphelion project is enough to say that Tyranids can adapt to anything and can build whatever they want from a ripper or a gaunt as long as there's biomass available.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Oh I get that, it's just extremely arbitrary.

I don't think it's arbitrary. But then this is fiction so maybe using real-life stuff is arbitrary.

If Imperium of Man and Tyranids are both given a planet, IoM will have a fleet of starships almost equal to the planet's mass, Tyranids will have a fleet of hiveships equal to about 0.5% of the planet's mass.

~100% v.s. 0.5%. How can you think that's not pathetic?

But, there still exists the possibility of planet eater tyranids.

 Insectum7 wrote:
The IOM doesn't convert a planet to materiel at anywhere near 100% efficiency.

Aren't Forge Worlds doing stuff like that? Endlessly mining to the planet's core to utilize 100% of the planet?

Even 50% or 25% efficiency is higher than 0.5%

Whatever, lets switch to Necrons who have anti-matter and matter transmutation abilities. Anti-matter to power their stuff, their stuff turns matter into necrodermis, repeat repeat repeat.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Or look at it another way, no other faction converts all organic molecules to ITSELF. 100% of organic molecules become 100% owned by the hive mind. People still grow food from plants. Heck, people aren't even the same conscious entity, but lots of different entities that grow old and die. The Hive Mind is functionally immortal, simply seeking out more of the components it can use to grow itself. The Tyranid endgame is: The universe is some dead rocks, and everything else is itself. Perhaps from it's perspective it is the finite-lived, puny other races that are pathetic. Who cares if they can make a big dead spaceships, their spaceships aren't part of a higher, pan-galactic being.

I guess I'm just disappointed that it's not 100% of matter and only organic molecules.

Why can't Tyranids use anti-matter? If they could then they can use 100% of matter. Necrons use it.
Why can't Tyranids conduct Nuclear Transmutation? Just split the atoms into smaller atoms (gases) and they can use all of that. High radiation applied to atoms makes them split. So just apply energy and atoms split.
It seems any big celestial object is pure gas, like gas giants and stars. So why can't Tyranids shove planets into each other to create a gas giant for consumption.
Or better yet push the planet into a sun and form a bio-dyson-sphere around it with hive ships.

side tangent:
I love Tyranids. In an earlier thread I chose Tau to be my race for wh40k but here I am after months coming back to Tyranids again as I always have. So Tyranids are my true love. No matter what I don't like about it, I keep coming back to it.
A large part of my issues with them has been resolved over time.
This gas giant quote from Devastation of Baal jumped their confirmed usable-matter from 0% to 75%.
I love Warriors, Carnifexes, and Hive Tyrants, and neutral to Tyrannofexes. I hate Hierophant. I hate how they look. And I also hate the hive ships. But I absolutely love Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2's Hive Ships. I asked over there if those designs are canon, and the posters there replied that Hive Ships can look however they want, and GW doesn't release "incorrect lore" in their video games so those Hive Ship designs are canon. And since Hive Ships are the "ultimate Tyranid lifeform" because they're the biggest and the strongest Tyranid unit in the game, I'm fine with not liking Hierophant because Hierophants aren't the ultimate Tyranid Unit, Hive Ships are.

But this being able to only use 0.5% of matter of a terrestrial planet is gonna forever haunt/bother me until GW finds a way to overcome that. Either with planet eating Tyranids, or that lack of consumption is because of a goal/expediency thing and not an incapability thing, or they intentionally keep these planets as Narwhal target points.

You guys should maybe start your own thread as this is widely off-topic. Geller Fields are completely unrelated to tyranids or their ability to consume gas giants.

Guys, don't get this thread locked too.

Tyranids
Tyranids
Tyranids

I'm happy that Tyranids can at least eat 75% of the galaxy.

Tyranids.

 Overread wrote:
This twists the lore around them somewhat. Tyranids might well have eaten gas giants, but unless they eat one Imperials care about and eat one that Imperial's see then it might never get reported on. It might be rare that the Imperium has just never seen it; or its common, but its a detail they don't care to mention.

What? I provided a quote on the very first page that directly says Tyranids have eaten gas giants the imperials care about and they have multiple reports on such incidents.