Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Following the release of the WD rules, I'm considering using a harlequin vanguard detachment with 2 or 3 Death Jesters in it, but I have a few questions first (that I suspect & hope will be FAQed):

- How does the new relic "Cegorach's Lament" interact with the DJ pivotal ability "Harvester of Torment"?
If I were to use the wail profile of the relic and killed two models of a given unit with a size of 6 or more models, would the unit be at ld -4? Would the two slain models trigger D3 or 2D3 MWs on the unit?

- The leadership debuff of the old relic "Curtainfall" does not stack with those of any other shrieker weapon. GW rules writers explained so in the relic (curtainfall) description but, given that the word "shrieker" is not used in "Cegorach's Lament" weapon profile nor is the sentence saying the debuff does not stack up with any other shrieker cannon leadership debuffs included in its description, would the debuffs due to a unit having been attacked by both curtainfall (or a regular shrieker cannon) and cegorach's lament (using the wail profile) add up?

eparedes0785 wrote:
Following the release of the WD rules, I'm considering using a harlequin vanguard detachment with 2 or 3 Death Jesters in it, but I have a few questions first (that I suspect & hope will be FAQed):

- How does the new relic "Cegorach's Lament" interact with the DJ pivotal ability "Harvester of Torment"?
If I were to use the wail profile of the relic and killed two models of a given unit with a size of 6 or more models, would the unit be at ld -4? Would the two slain models trigger D3 or 2D3 MWs on the unit?

- The leadership debuff of the old relic "Curtainfall" does not stack with those of any other shrieker weapon. GW rules writers explained so in the relic (curtainfall) description but, given that the word "shrieker" is not used in "Cegorach's Lament" weapon profile nor is the sentence saying the debuff does not stack up with any other shrieker cannon leadership debuffs included in its description, would the debuffs due to a unit having been attacked by both curtainfall (or a regular shrieker cannon) and cegorach's lament (using the wail profile) add up?

1) The unit would be at -4 as the leadership penalty is applied "each time a model is slain". Likewise, the mortal wounds occur "each time a model is slain", so if you slay 2 models, you get 2D3 Mortal Wounds. Compare to the Curtainfalls wording of "if any models", which caps it at -2.

2) Regardless of what any old rules say, the current rules do not say "any other shrieker weapon", it says "shrieker cannon". Cegorach's Lament is not a "shrieker cannon", so it's leadership modifier is cumulative with the one from Curtainfall. Unlike Space Marines, which state that some relics are "bolt weapons", there is no such rule for Harlequins and no such rule defining "shrieker weapons".

I agree with BCB.

I would also add this may change with the FAQ. The rules aren't even out yet and GW may release a Errata to Curtainfall and/or Lament to not stack with each other/shrieker cannons.

But I agree with the other two based on presented info.

mightymconeshot wrote:
I would also add this may change with the FAQ. The rules aren't even out yet and GW may release a Errata to Curtainfall and/or Lament to not stack with each other/shrieker cannons.

But I agree with the other two based on presented info.

Given we've not seen an FAQ for Saga of the Beast or the pathetic excuse that was the Deathwatch mini-PA, I wouldn't hold my breath.

You definitely get the mortal wounds for each model killed, both RAW and RAI. Quins already had a strat that let you count one hit as two (or three on sixes) that comboed with the base weapon or curtainfall. I don't see any reason to think this is any different or not intended.

RAW the LD malus stacks with itself and with the normal weapon/Curtainfall, meaning you can put -8LD on something.

RAI it is completely obvious that is not intended, and I have no doubt it will be fixed at some point. If I was playing that relic, I would explain to my opponent beforehand and suggest we just go with the obvious RAI that doesn't allow stacking above a -2, unless for some masochistic reason they really wanted to play with the RAW.