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Hey, just wanted to clarify something - does a unit shooting need LOS AND to be in range of one model?

Or can it be in LOS of the unit and in range of another model in the unit (that's out of LOS)

I've heard it argued both ways, depending of your reading of this rule:

"In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used (as listed on its profile) and be visible to the shooting model." and whether it explicitly says it has to be the same model for both checks.

I know the 'feels right' way is that you'd need LOS and range on the same model but have heard others argue that they are independent checks based on that wording.

What is right RAW?

Thanks for any help!

The same model needs to be in range and in LoS.

I dont think the other reading of this, while technically possible, makes any sense. It would be worded differently if they wanted it read differently than this interpretation.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Hey, just wanted to clarify something - does a unit shooting need LOS AND to be in range of one model?

Or can it be in LOS of the unit and in range of another model in the unit (that's out of LOS)

I've heard it argued both ways, depending of your reading of this rule:

"In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used (as listed on its profile) and be visible to the shooting model." and whether it explicitly says it has to be the same model for both checks.

I know the 'feels right' way is that you'd need LOS and range on the same model but have heard others argue that they are independent checks based on that wording.

What is right RAW?

Thanks for any help!

You need both LOS and Range to the same model in the target unit.

BRB Page 179 wrote:2. Choose Targets
Having chosen a shooting unit, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the Range of the weapon being used (as listed on its profile) and be visible to the shooting model.

"a model from that unit" must both be "within the Range" and "be visible to the shooting model".

Keep in mind that each individual model in the attacking unit needs to check for LOS and Range, but you can measure LOS and Range to different models in the target unit.

Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated

I think the confusion primarily comes from the fact that LOS is checked only once on the defending side: that is, your models only need LOS to one model from the target in order to shoot at the entire unit (given that the said model is within range of all of your weapons).

So I hope this does not constitute a necro, but I have a follow up question to this. In another thread someone mentioned he once had an argument with his opponent because in this case there was only one model, a vehicle I believe, were the LOS part was satisfied but the part that was in range was not in LOS. So what happens then? Seeing as the model is both in range and LOS just not at the same time if that makes sense.

 Castozor wrote:
So I hope this does not constitute a necro, but I have a follow up question to this. In another thread someone mentioned he once had an argument with his opponent because in this case there was only one model, a vehicle I believe, were the LOS part was satisfied but the part that was in range was not in LOS. So what happens then? Seeing as the model is both in range and LOS just not at the same time if that makes sense.

You measure LOS from any part of the shooting model to any part of the target model (which includes the base(s)). You measure range from the CLOSEST points of the shooting models base/hull and the target models base/hull. You can't measure range from anywhere other than the two closest points. Whether the part that is in range is in LOS is not relevant.

This is on a model by model basis, even for models within multi-model units. In the scenario you give, because the model was both in range (as measured from the closest points) and in LOS, the model can fire. The fact that the part that is in range doesn't have LOS doesn't matter, you have fulfilled the requirements set out by the rules.

Edit: Here is a crude sketch. The Rhino wants to shoot the Grot with a Storm Bolter. It has both Range and LOS to the Grot, so it can shoot the Storm Bolter at it.

Likewise for the random Tactical Marine

Alright thanks BCB! I had a hunch that would be correct but since it is kind of "illogical" to me I wasn't sure.