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In 9th edition, some vehicles will be able to shoot while tied up in combat. Does anyone know, or has read, how this affects open-topped vehicles, such as the Ork Trukk, Ork Battlewagon and SOB Repressor, where units inside can shoot outside of the vehicle?

cjmate8 wrote:
In 9th edition, some vehicles will be able to shoot while tied up in combat. Does anyone know, or has read, how this affects open-topped vehicles, such as the Ork Trukk, Ork Battlewagon and SOB Repressor, where units inside can shoot outside of the vehicle?

We have no information on how this will work in 9th edition. However, most if not all Open-Topped rules explicitly state the unit inside cannot fire if the transport is "within 1" of an enemy unit", but it is given as an "example", rather than a strict rule.

In short, no clue.

Presuming no changes to the Open Topped rules, I would assume most units in Open Topped vehicles would not be able to fire since I can't think of many vehicles or monsters that fit in Open Topped units.

Still, that is a lot of assumptions on my parts.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

cjmate8 wrote:
In 9th edition, some vehicles will be able to shoot while tied up in combat. Does anyone know, or has read, how this affects open-topped vehicles, such as the Ork Trukk, Ork Battlewagon and SOB Repressor, where units inside can shoot outside of the vehicle?

We have no information on how this will work in 9th edition. However, most if not all Open-Topped rules explicitly state the unit inside cannot fire if the transport is "within 1" of an enemy unit", but it is given as an "example", rather than a strict rule.

In short, no clue.

Tbf: that "example" is on the portion of the rule generally stating: "any restrictions or modifiers on this model's shooting also apply to the embarked unit"

So lack of restriction on vehicles would also be lack of restriction on passengers.

But, yeah; we won't know until we get the 9th edition rules.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Tbf: that "example" is on the portion of the rule generally stating: "any restrictions or modifiers on this model's shooting also apply to the embarked unit"

So lack of restriction on vehicles would also be lack of restriction on passengers.

But, yeah; we won't know until we get the 9th edition rules.

We know at least some new restrictions, and that would be being forced to shoot the units locked in combat with them, heavy weapons getting -1 when doing so and blast weapons being unable to shoot unless everything gets cleared out before.

I meant if big guns never tire is fully a special rule that applies to vehicles (similar to heroic intervention box-out), or if it is more "baked into" the shooting rules.

If it is a special rule, then the restriction is still technically there but ignored. And that would be a fun day in YMDC

If it is baked in, then passengers fire-free.

There might also be other rules involved we do not know about yet, and there is supposed to be day 1 FAQs so we will have a definitive answer when 9th drops.

It looks like you should be able to shoot out of the vehicle.

Lets look at the wording of open top from the harlequins codex.

When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if this modelis within 1" of an enemy unit. Note that, due to their Rising Crescendo ability, the passengers can shoot if this model Falls Back.

This rule says "FOR EXAMPLE the passengers cannot shoot if this model is within 1""
This is not a ruling statement but rather an example of when a restriction is applied to the unit. If that restriction no longer exists the example invalid. This is how sentences in english work,,, for those who will say "but it says the passengers cannot shoot if this model is within 1" it doesnt say that,,, there is more to the sentence. there is no command statement here only a reference statement.

All right.
Rules, Transports, page 12.

Embark: Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way while they are embarked. If the transport made a normal move, advanced, fallen back or remained stationary, passengers count as doing the same.

That's the general rule.

Open-topped is a datacard rule, not a rulebook rule. So whatever the current version says (on that model's datacard) is all the information available.

Big guns never tire would seem to override the 'example' in open topped.


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Kommissar Kel wrote:I meant if big guns never tire is fully a special rule that applies to vehicles (similar to heroic intervention box-out), or if it is more "baked into" the shooting rules.

If it is a special rule, then the restriction is still technically there but ignored. And that would be a fun day in YMDC

If it is baked in, then passengers fire-free.

The rules are rules. Being in a side bar doesn't make them less...rules-y, just not applicable to everyone:

Mini rulebook page 2 wrote:Advanced rules are sectioned off from the main
rules text and presented after the phase of the
game they would appear. These rules are not
required in every game, and are only needed if
your army includes certain units that interact
with these rules.

Big guns never tire would apply in any game that includes a vehicle.