Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

https://imgur.com/a/1oDiCIB

Literally every non auto hit weapon with a random shot profile is a blast weapon.

Plasma Cannons confirmed better than they already were, it seems.

I wonder if there will be a downside against single model targets. Can a Blast still hit a vehicle multiple times?

I guess they still do, we don't have any info or rumor on the contrary being true.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Plasma Cannons confirmed better than they already were, it seems.

I wonder if there will be a downside against single model targets. Can a Blast still hit a vehicle multiple times?

Only downside is can't shoot to melee with vehicles.

yeah so only a downside to vehical/monstor mounted weapons.

Ironically a number of these weapons are going to see 0 benifit from this rule, or such a low impact as to be meaningless.

So far units over 5 seem to be disadvantaged by the rules and units over 10 are even more punished, so unless your going to the extreme of 30+models your going to be better of with minimum strength units 95%of the time.

The top meta army has most of its units have minimum unit sizes of 3 or 5, going to maximium units of 6 or 10.

Being 5 models vrs 6
No coherency to 3 models
Both take 3 casualties to hit half strenth
5 man units will ignore moral/attrition most of the time with LD8 ATSKNF, 9 & 10.

Two units of 5 only gives up 5 models woth of shooting for actions while the other 5 can do as they please.

TLDR
Rules for 11+ models never going to be relevant 95% of the time
Only units with Minimums sizes larger than 6 will take more than 5 models.

Also even in the few occasions that you are shooting a 6-10 model units the Minimum 3 shots does

Nothing for 3Dx and up weapons
Nothing 215 times in 216 rolls for 3D6 discard the lowest
Nothing 35 times in 36 rolls for 2D6 weapons
Nothing 11 times in 12 rolls for 2d6 discard the lowest
Nothing 8 times in 9 rolls of 2D3
Nothing 4 times in 6 rolls of D6

Something 2 times in 3 rolls of D3.

Just to be pedantic, the predator autocannon is heavy 2d3 and not on the list. So it’s not every random weapon.

It shouldn’t be, as it’s always been classed as a rate of fire gun and not a big explosion gun.

Any other non-flamer/autohit guns with random shots not make the list?

Was helverin autocannon named like that? If yes that's also missing.

But yeah some random shot non auto hit weapons might be missing. Not that many though.

I don’t know every weapon in the game but I didn’t see any weapon on the list that shouldn’t have been there and I can’t think of any weapon that wasn’t on there that should.

Wasn't expecting the frag cannon. 12 automatic hits on 11+-model squads is going to make it pretty nasty. Maybe they're throwing it a bone in compensation for making you pay CP to overwatch with it.

The above is not a blast. Sigh.

Drager, I don't think they did any Forge World weapons in that list.

 Nevelon wrote:

Any other non-flamer/autohit guns with random shots not make the list?

Lootas' Deffgun (heavy D3) and Stompas Supa-Gatler (heavy 3D6) from the orks' codex. Both machine-gun weapons style, so it makes sense that they aren't Blast.

I don't see Aeldari Missile launcher, but regular missile launcher is there.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I don't see Aeldari Missile launcher, but regular missile launcher is there.

It's literally the second bullet.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I don't see Aeldari Missile launcher, but regular missile launcher is there.

It's literally the second bullet.

As is the twin AML in the third column.

I'm liking the blast heavy venom cannons honestly. For less than a single lascannon price you get flat 3 assault lascannon shots against 6+. Sure you won't find perfect use every time, but even against stuff like intercessor squads bringing 3 x str 9 ap-2 3d shots for 18 pts looks sexy.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I don't see Aeldari Missile launcher, but regular missile launcher is there.

It's literally the second bullet.

Welp, time for a new monitor and pair of eyes it would seem

topaxygouroun i wrote:
I'm liking the blast heavy venom cannons honestly. For less than a single lascannon price you get flat 3 assault lascannon shots against 6+. Sure you won't find perfect use every time, but even against stuff like intercessor squads bringing 3 x str 9 ap-2 3d shots for 18 pts looks sexy.

It was small blast in the past, I was hoping it NOT go back to blast, so you can shoot into melee, oh wel.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
I'm liking the blast heavy venom cannons honestly. For less than a single lascannon price you get flat 3 assault lascannon shots against 6+. Sure you won't find perfect use every time, but even against stuff like intercessor squads bringing 3 x str 9 ap-2 3d shots for 18 pts looks sexy.

It was small blast in the past, I was hoping it NOT go back to blast, so you can shoot into melee, oh wel.

i prefer it this way. I have dakkafex to shoot in combat if I need to.

Also, people are way over-valuing shooting in combat. If it's your turn and you charge, it's already past shooting time, so you need to stay locked in combat for TWO combat phases without dying or losing profile in order to use it, If you get charged you only get to wait 1 combat phase, but then again you just got charged so, good luck.

Just like pistols last edition, shooting in combat is going to be extremely rare and limited.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
I'm liking the blast heavy venom cannons honestly. For less than a single lascannon price you get flat 3 assault lascannon shots against 6+. Sure you won't find perfect use every time, but even against stuff like intercessor squads bringing 3 x str 9 ap-2 3d shots for 18 pts looks sexy.

It was small blast in the past, I was hoping it NOT go back to blast, so you can shoot into melee, oh wel.

i prefer it this way. I have dakkafex to shoot in combat if I need to.

Also, people are way over-valuing shooting in combat. If it's your turn and you charge, it's already past shooting time, so you need to stay locked in combat for TWO combat phases without dying or losing profile in order to use it, If you get charged you only get to wait 1 combat phase, but then again you just got charged so, good luck.

Just like pistols last edition, shooting in combat is going to be extremely rare and limited.

Not so sure about that. On the one hand shooting with pistols actually appeared pretty often in our games (though we often forgot about it ), on the other hand vehicles don't kill with their CC ability, don't want to Fall back as they can't shoot if they do and are durable enough to withstand two combat phases.

I assume the missile launchers will only count as blast with the frag or equivalent so you could fire crack missiles into melee or is that too much to hope for?

 kingheff wrote:
I assume the missile launchers will only count as blast with the frag or equivalent so you could fire crack missiles into melee or is that too much to hope for?

There does not appear to be such a distinction in the rules so far.

Sterling191 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I assume the missile launchers will only count as blast with the frag or equivalent so you could fire crack missiles into melee or is that too much to hope for?

There does not appear to be such a distinction in the rules so far.

I read the header at the top of the list to clarify that. Only the random profiles get blast.

So krack missile to the face in CC.

(For vehicle mounted MLs) Kind of like how you could snap shot them in prior editions, but not frags.

That's good to hear, suspect missile launchers will pay for the privilege but it's a good advantage for them.

tneva82 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Plasma Cannons confirmed better than they already were, it seems.

I wonder if there will be a downside against single model targets. Can a Blast still hit a vehicle multiple times?

Only downside is can't shoot to melee with vehicles.

Ahh, right. Although it's a little tough to get them on vehicles to begin with. I think just Dreads and the Storm Raven iirc. (for Marines). Obviously Leman Russes can get them.

I have a question. Is being a blast weapon better or worse?

Because between blast existing at all and the coherency rules, I can't see very many big units being around.

So essentially blast will just be 'Can't fire into combat' the majority of the time right?

So isn't being a blast weapon technically worse?

ERJAK wrote:
I have a question. Is being a blast weapon better or worse?

Because between blast existing at all and the coherency rules, I can't see very many big units being around.

So essentially blast will just be 'Can't fire into combat' the majority of the time right?

So isn't being a blast weapon technically worse?

Contextually dependent, which is arguably as it should be. I think a lot of units are still forced to run at 10 minimum, too. So it would appear that D3 Blasts are still hitting their maximum amounts for those targets. Plasma Cannons will annihilate Necron Warrior squads, which are min 10.

 Insectum7 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
I have a question. Is being a blast weapon better or worse?

Because between blast existing at all and the coherency rules, I can't see very many big units being around.

So essentially blast will just be 'Can't fire into combat' the majority of the time right?

So isn't being a blast weapon technically worse?

Contextually dependent, which is arguably as it should be. I think a lot of units are still forced to run at 10 minimum, too. So it would appear that D3 Blasts are still hitting their maximum amounts for those targets. Plasma Cannons will annihilate Necron Warrior squads, which are min 10.

For anything above a D3 shot weapon its going to be a nerf especially as GW seem to be inceasing points for some wealons and not others with the blast keyword.
It's going to suck when your forced to blast weapon.

ERJAK wrote:
I have a question. Is being a blast weapon better or worse?

Because between blast existing at all and the coherency rules, I can't see very many big units being around.

So essentially blast will just be 'Can't fire into combat' the majority of the time right?

So isn't being a blast weapon technically worse?

Depends what is firing the blast weapons. Shooting in melee is a vehicle/MC rule, so a blast weapon carried by infantry doesn’t have a downside.

Ice_can wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
I have a question. Is being a blast weapon better or worse?

Because between blast existing at all and the coherency rules, I can't see very many big units being around.

So essentially blast will just be 'Can't fire into combat' the majority of the time right?

So isn't being a blast weapon technically worse?

Contextually dependent, which is arguably as it should be. I think a lot of units are still forced to run at 10 minimum, too. So it would appear that D3 Blasts are still hitting their maximum amounts for those targets. Plasma Cannons will annihilate Necron Warrior squads, which are min 10.

For anything above a D3 shot weapon its going to be a nerf especially as GW seem to be inceasing points for some wealons and not others with the blast keyword.
It's going to suck when your forced to blast weapon.

This is more what I was thinking. If GW goes 'oh man, blast weapons are gonna be lit fam!' and puts a premium price tag on them and then...no one plays any big units anymore, being a blast weapon will be a noose around a vehicle or monster's neck.