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So with the new 5" vertical engagement range and one floor of the new GW ruins being exactly 5" high. You can do a 7" charge from deep strike.
The deep striking unit is at point B and the enemy at point A
If you factor in the base height of the model and do a little math.


Is this possible or did i miss something?

This is correct.

Something like that is bound to get faq'd pretty quickly if it gets abused (would probably get changed to 9" away horizontally).

Guarantee they will say you cannot DS into terrain (or it will be dangerous, like in previous editions).

I don't expect them to FAQ it, honestly, because it will open other cans of worm regarding TLOS, model height and measuring distances.
If they FAQ it, I suppose they can forbid diagonal measurements in order to standardize towards an horizontal TLOS and an abstract management of vertical movement (the the rules already pushes in that direction... see the Oscuring rule of the Aircraft keyword).

That said, it's a permutation that may or may not become standard like the tripointing, but I feel that in the end it will push toward screening units in the ground floor of buildings, or will create a narratively meaningful disadvantage for the units alone in upper levels with empty floor level... all thing considered: can be interesting in terms of gameplay.

Does it even need fixing?

It's less broken than the current state where putting a unit on a crate or the second floor in ruins changes them into Incursors Lite, forcing (nearly) impossible charge rolls.

The defender can decide to stay on the ground and get the most of "more than 9" distance.

Well, if the enemy is at point A, your unit has to be vertically below this unit.
But then your unit will eventually be in a terrain feature and so the unit will get -2'' for the charge.
Then the range will be 7.5 + 2.0 = 9.5''

Dont place all models on the first floor. Place one model on the ground floor, and the charge roll needed is 9.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, if the enemy is at point A, your unit has to be vertically below this unit.
But then your unit will eventually be in a terrain feature and so the unit will get -2'' for the charge.
Then the range will be 7.5 + 2.0 = 9.5''

This is only true if the terrain feature has the difficult ground trait, and the charging unit has no FLY.

Ok so we will have to wait and see how this gets handled. Thanks

I'll admit I haven't checked the math but is this as much of a problem as it used to be? So far no,one is suggesting 1 inch deepstrike charges or such are a thing.

Also with the changes to the reroll strategum most of the CC players are saying charging from deepstrike is impossible now anyway.

Ice_can wrote:
I'll admit I haven't checked the math but is this as much of a problem as it used to be? So far no,one is suggesting 1 inch deepstrike charges or such are a thing.

Also with the changes to the reroll strategum most of the CC players are saying charging from deepstrike is impossible now anyway.

Right, no big deal. Evil sunz orks can do 6" rerollable charges after deepstriking, without the reroll stratagem. Raptors, or warp talons from a host raptorial detachment, with a warlord with the tip of claw warlord trait, will be able to do a 5" charge. BA will be able to do a 7" charge with 3D6.

 p5freak wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I'll admit I haven't checked the math but is this as much of a problem as it used to be? So far no,one is suggesting 1 inch deepstrike charges or such are a thing.

Also with the changes to the reroll strategum most of the CC players are saying charging from deepstrike is impossible now anyway.

Right, no big deal. Evil sunz orks can do 6" rerollable charges after deepstriking, without the reroll stratagem. Raptors, or warp talons from a host raptorial detachment, with a warlord with the tip of claw warlord trait, will be able to do a 5" charge. BA will be able to do a 7" charge with 3D6.

Against an enemy unit that is within 5" vertically of the unit, on the basis that they can get geographically directly underneath them. The circumstances are so specific it's not a huge issue, just leave some units on the ground floor to push them further back. If you can get up higher then do that. What are the odds of having a perfect space to drop in and charge perfectly underneath a unit?

Reivers could to the same, couldn't they?

 p5freak wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I'll admit I haven't checked the math but is this as much of a problem as it used to be? So far no,one is suggesting 1 inch deepstrike charges or such are a thing.

Also with the changes to the reroll strategum most of the CC players are saying charging from deepstrike is impossible now anyway.

Right, no big deal. Evil sunz orks can do 6" rerollable charges after deepstriking, without the reroll stratagem. Raptors, or warp talons from a host raptorial detachment, with a warlord with the tip of claw warlord trait, will be able to do a 5" charge. BA will be able to do a 7" charge with 3D6.

As I dont do deepstrike melee I haven't workedout the odds myself

Their argument seems to be being forced to reroll all the dice not the short one is the problem as it screws their odds, but that said I'm not sure having reroll 1 die was great for the game as the odds got quite high for some deepstrike charging.

Sounds like their is still some units that may mean that this needs looked at, or it will be you must deepstrike more than 9 inches away for an enemy models engagement range which could be brutal as thats a lot of screening cylinder volume for some models.

Ice_can wrote:

Their argument seems to be being forced to reroll all the dice not the short one is the problem as it screws their odds, but that said I'm not sure having reroll 1 die was great for the game as the odds got quite high for some deepstrike charging.

Orks can reroll one or both dice from the charge roll, thats their ere we go rule.

Isn't there supposd to be playtesters to pick this sort of thing up?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Isn't there supposd to be playtesters to pick this sort of thing up?

They probably did. GW has a tendency to ignore feedback on relatively pedantic rules issues like this. Same as with the whole, '1+ save=2++ invul' issue.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Isn't there supposd to be playtesters to pick this sort of thing up?

Also from what playtesters have been saying, they've been testing for the past 6 months. Given the usual lead time on the books, chances are a lot of the feedback wasn't ready for the book print. It will/should be in day one FAQs/errata.

I really doubt this is a big enough problem in real games to warrant a rules change. If you are less then 5" up, the difference between the two distances will also be less.

They should have just used apocs terrain rules.