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According to 9th core rules regarding embarked units,
"Unless specifically stated, abilities have no effect on units while embarked"

Does this only mean that those units cannot be affected by abilities from units outside of the transporter or does it also prevent the use of the abilities shown on the embarked units datasheet (e.g. dakkadakka for embarked ork units)?
Could a native speaker please tell me how to interpret that correctly?

As far as I know it works in the same way as 8th edition. No one here could agree how it was supposed to work in 8th edition so...

There's no rule called "open topped" in 9th edition. In each case, you need to check the datasheet of the vehicle in question to see what's allowed.

Most often, the unit in the transport can't be affected by abilities (e.g. auras) from outside the vehicle but still use their own rules when shooting.

 Asmodai wrote:
There's no rule called "open topped" in 9th edition. In each case, you need to check the datasheet of the vehicle in question to see what's allowed.

Yes, there is.

Ok, I'll try to give some more information:

The 8th Edition rule for Passengers was:



In this rule, only the use auf Aura abilities from models inside a transport is explicitly forbidden.

In 9th, the wording has changed slightly:



Now, abilities in general do not have any effect; there seems to be no difference between Aura abilities from outside the vehicle , aura abilities from within the vehicel and non-aura abilities of the passengers (e.g. dakka dakka), if I'm interpreting the wording correctly.

The different "open-topped" rules on the datasheets don't really help here, they only refer to shooting and are basically all the same, for example Ork one:



The Harlequins Open topped has the same text plus an addendum that makes clear that the Quins Ability "rising crescendo" does still work. It does not tell us whether this menas that all abilities on datasheets should work or whether this is one of the abilities that fall under the 9th Ed "unless specifically mentioned"...



So, while I personally would prefer to use dakkadakka out of trukks, I'm not surte whether 9th rules support this idea any longer...

Nothing has changed from 8th to 9th. Shooting from open topped vehicles was a hot mess in 8th, and it still is in 9th. According to the transports rule "Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way while they are embarked. " Open topped says "Models embarked on this model can attack in their Shooting phase." Are they able to use dakkadakka, or would that affect them in any way, which isnt possible, according to the transport rule ? Would their plasma blow up, or would that affect them in any way, which isnt possible, according to the transport rule ? What if a MW is reflected back onto them, from the targeted unit ? Would that affect them in any way, which isnt possible, according to the transports rule ?

While from a RAW perspective I agree it is unclear the same as it was in 8th.

Conventionally weapons fire as normal e.g. plasma

Rules such as canticles that are on the models datasheet that apply to the model functions

Auras have no effect whether within range of the vehicle or embarked

The Tau 9th Faq changed the Open-Topped Keyword on the Tidewall fortifcations to have this line

"‘When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this
model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers
cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn.
While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy
units, embarked units cannot shoot, except with Pistols."

Which means that aura abilities now do specifically hit those units when they are embarked. At least on the tidewall specifically.

The only thing that has changed is engagement range. In 8th units embarked on an open topped transport aren't affected by an aura ability which buffs the transport. It's unclear if this will be true in 9th as well.

Yeah, that's why I can't imagine using trukks or open Battlewagons ever again.

The only time I did, I disembarked a unit from an engaged trukk and wanted to shoot with them, when my friend specifically engaged the trukk thinking that it would prevent everyone to shoot (he didn't spoke out his intent tho). After an argument, we could never find a clear answer.

Honestly, I can't understand that GW isn't fixing this.

ah good, this is still a thing.

yeah, GW messed up this rule in 8th and never fixed it. I guess they thought it was obvious, but the big divide in people reading it says otherwise!

My gut feeling (for making it make sense) is that if a model is allowed to shoot then they should suffer all the repercussions of shooting (plasma exploding, bomm squigs dying, dakkax3, reflected MW's, though that's an odd one). As the rules are written, the models shooting out of a vehicle do so with base stats, unaffected by anything, unless it affects the vehicle (so only -1 to hit a flyer if the transport shot at it, otherwise it didn't affect the transport so doesn't affect the passengers) and no chance of death by plasma. technically if the vehicle has no heavy weapons, you can move and fire them from inside with no modifier, as the transport was not affected by this rule so it doesn't pass in to the passengers.

It's a mess. It needs clarification from GW. with the rule as it is, I get infinite bomm squigs fired from a battlewagon. I can fire KMB's from embarked meks without them exploding. hell, can I fire grenades with everyone, to avoid them being "affected" by the rule restricting it? it's nonsense.

The rules for embarked units have changed. It now says :

Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way
while they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
have no effect on units while they are embarked, and Stratagems
cannot be used to affect units while they are embarked. For all
rules purposes, units that are embarked within a Transport
model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or
Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of
move that turn.

It says abilities have no effect on units while they are embarked. Now, what exactly is an ability ? In 8th it was warlord trait, detachment ability, abilities on a units datasheet, psychic powers, etc. Is dakkadakka an ability ?

 p5freak wrote:
The rules for embarked units have changed. It now says :

Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way
while they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
have no effect on units while they are embarked, and Stratagems
cannot be used to affect units while they are embarked. For all
rules purposes, units that are embarked within a Transport
model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or
Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of
move that turn.

It says abilities have no effect on units while they are embarked. Now, what exactly is an ability ? In 8th it was warlord trait, detachment ability, abilities on a units datasheet, psychic powers, etc. Is dakkadakka an ability ?

Anything listed as an abilityis an ability.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The rules for embarked units have changed. It now says :

Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way
while they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
have no effect on units while they are embarked, and Stratagems
cannot be used to affect units while they are embarked. For all
rules purposes, units that are embarked within a Transport
model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or
Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of
move that turn.

It says abilities have no effect on units while they are embarked. Now, what exactly is an ability ? In 8th it was warlord trait, detachment ability, abilities on a units datasheet, psychic powers, etc. Is dakkadakka an ability ?

Anything listed as an abilityis an ability.

Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

 p5freak wrote:
Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

It is true though. Abilities are listed as abilities on Dataslates.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

It is true though. Abilities are listed as abilities on Dataslates.

And Warlord Traits are not on the datasheet...

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

It is true though. Abilities are listed as abilities on Dataslates.

And Warlord Traits are not on the datasheet...

Okay, and?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

It is true though. Abilities are listed as abilities on Dataslates.

And Warlord Traits are not on the datasheet...

Okay, and?

In 8th they were treated as an ability.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

It is true though. Abilities are listed as abilities on Dataslates.

Not true in 8th.

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds
Add the following as a boxout on this page:
‘Ignoring Wounds
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore
the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g.
Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious
Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you
can only use one of those abilities each time the model
loses a wound.’

The flesh is weak is a chapter tactic, and tenacious survivor is a warlord trait. Both are treated as abilities, but arent listed as such on datasheets.

ah, once again the use of generic words to classify things has rendered GW's writing as an argument starter...

Next there will be rules for if a model uses an "object", and whether weapons are "objects"...

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The rules for embarked units have changed. It now says :

Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way
while they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities
have no effect on units while they are embarked, and Stratagems
cannot be used to affect units while they are embarked. For all
rules purposes, units that are embarked within a Transport
model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or
Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of
move that turn.

It says abilities have no effect on units while they are embarked. Now, what exactly is an ability ? In 8th it was warlord trait, detachment ability, abilities on a units datasheet, psychic powers, etc. Is dakkadakka an ability ?

Anything listed as an abilityis an ability.

Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

Anything that's listed as an ability is an ability though. There's just some other things that also count. I would say that until there's evidence otherwise (possibly the main rulebook FAQ for 9th when they drop that) it would be best to go with whatever they counted as an ability in 8th still counts that way in the 9th edition. We should know in a few days whether things change in the main rulebook FAQ

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Thats not true. A warlord trait isnt listed as an ability, yet GW treated it as such in 8th. Not sure if thats still true in 9th.

It is true though. Abilities are listed as abilities on Dataslates.

Not true in 8th.

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds
Add the following as a boxout on this page:
‘Ignoring Wounds
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore
the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g.
Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious
Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you
can only use one of those abilities each time the model
loses a wound.’

The flesh is weak is a chapter tactic, and tenacious survivor is a warlord trait. Both are treated as abilities, but arent listed as such on datasheets.

Okay and?

That does not negate what I said.