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So for an aggressive Invictor: it already loses 2 guns while engaged: The Heavy Bolter, and the Fragstorm.

But it is the main gun arm I am Mos Concerned with here.

Do I take 6 s7d2 shots, or 2d6 s5d1 auto hitting shots?

Math Hammer says that they should be 4 hits for the AC, and 7 Hits for the Flames, I am leaning more towards the Flames since they also Auto-hit before the charge, and it can deep-deploy closer for alpha-strike Deploy, Move, Flame, Charge, but the lack of strength on the cannon and lack of anti-vehicle/high Damage in Primaris really makes me want to go Twin IH AC; range is also a factor for a more spread enemy.

As for the Redeemer, similar Issue: Have 2 want to go one all blasty try not to enter Melee if avoidable(2 Fragstorm, and Hvy Plas Incinerator), other want towards combat(Heavy Onslaught and Storm Bolters), the Question is really on the Fist-guns. Do I go with Onslaught on both for rate of fire and range, or Heavy Flamer on the melee demptor? Heavy Flamer is d6 Auto-hit, Onslaught is 6 -1 to hit but better range(and Higher points). Both Demptors will have Icarus Rocket Pods because the to-hit penalty is meaningless in combat vs non-fly, and negates not penalty vs fly. While the d6 auto-hit seems it might be better, and shaves points, there is always the chance that I could roll lower shots than I could get his with the onslaught(1 Hit chance vs 3 hits avg, but any roll over 3 is more average hits and averages come out to 3.5 shots/hits); but then we roll into the range "issues" where the Heavy flamer cannot even attack until within 8"(so 12"-16" threat range as the demptor takes damage) vs the onslaught always being in range/threat(or near enough to it).

Your Heavy Bolter is a pistol so you still get to shoot it if I'm not mistaken. Along those same lines I believe you only hit 3 average with the autocannon due to -1 to hit?

Redemptor depends on rst of army make-up and your playstyle but offhand it seems having the larger range band might be best for this unit. Unless you're Sallies, then yeah Flamers for Everyone

If the heavy Bolter stays a pistol this would mean you cannot Shoot any other weapon

Context? What Chapter are you playing?

Aeri wrote:
If the heavy Bolter stays a pistol this would mean you cannot Shoot any other weapon

Yes, in melee you would have to decide if you shoot the HB as pistol, or any other weapons you have available. I would always shoot the 2D6 incendium cannon, it auto hits, no -1 to hit, and its 7 hits average. And the ironhail heavy stubber.

 MinMax wrote:
Context? What Chapter are you playing?

Sons of Medusa(Iron Hands).

p5freak has the reality of it sorted: Never use the HB-pistol while engaged: 3 shots at full BS is not nearly as good as 12 / 6+2D6 shots at -1 to hit.

I will try a few games with both, and see how the work for me(have the model set to swap).

For the Redemptor: still going to have to try some games with Arm-swaps for which turns out better, but I am regretting putting fragstorms on the one(my first one, built pre-Bolter discipline rules); Might just say eff-it and always count-as Storm Bolters, or if I still have the bits, cut off the frags for storm bolters.