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GW appear to be taking down scalpers selling Indomitus on eBay, citing copyright infringement.

Chaper Master Valrak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJpQ-df54M0

That does not seem a legal battle they will win or anyone would take seriously as much as I would applaud the attempt.

The last legal battle GW lost fethed us all as a result. I’d hate to see them stop selling box sets or something dumb because of this lol

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
That does not seem a legal battle they will win or anyone would take seriously as much as I would applaud the attempt.

I agree. I guess it inconveniences the scalpers, and costs GW little/nothing to do.

Possibly, since the seller has to take down the item (at least temporarily), any bids made without knowledge of the 'made to order' boxes, would be refunded?

Several years on and GW still doesn't know what copyright means...

I don't codone what the scalpers are doing (though, it's a free market, if you're stupid enough to pay that much then more power to you), but I hope eBay has their back here. GW's just took a swing at a big boy and they're going to realise their arms are too short to box with god.

This is indeed not how copyright works. After GW sells it, their ability to control future transactions ends. At least in the US it does.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Several years on and GW still doesn't know what copyright means...

I don't codone what the scalpers are doing (though, it's a free market, if you're stupid enough to pay that much then more power to you), but I hope eBay has their back here. GW's just took a swing at a big boy and they're going to realise their arms are too short to box with god.

I don't agree.

I suspect copyright infringement in this case works similarly to how it does on YouTube. If an infringement it is alleged by a company, the video (or in this case sale listing) gets taken down pending a review from Youtube/eBay.

The fact that it is not enforcemable by law is neither here nor there.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
That does not seem a legal battle they will win or anyone would take seriously as much as I would applaud the attempt.

It isn't something they have to go to court to do. It's similar to a DMCA on youtube that takes down a video immediately, because of some backed process. It will get the listings off the radar for a while and perhaps the scalpers to turn in their pre-orders.

Its nice to see something like that used for good for a change.

Edit: ninja'd

I'm not watching a Valrak video. Any TLDR?

The only way they're able to make a copyright claim is based on using GW's photos in the listings.

If someone made a listing where they just showed the sprues, for example, GW would not be able to go after them.

 harlokin wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Several years on and GW still doesn't know what copyright means...

I don't codone what the scalpers are doing (though, it's a free market, if you're stupid enough to pay that much then more power to you), but I hope eBay has their back here. GW's just took a swing at a big boy and they're going to realise their arms are too short to box with god.

I don't agree.

I suspect copyright infringement in this case works similarly to how it does on YouTube. If an infringement it is alleged by a company, the video (or in this case sale listing) gets taken down pending a review from Youtube/eBay.

The fact that it is not enforcemable by law is neither here nor there.

The fact that eBay (and their sister companies. Remember who deals with payment on GW's site) could eat GW for breakfast is here and there though. eBay is fething ruthless and I think GW, for all their good intentions are biting off more than they can chew here. In this scenario GW are the Tau and eBay is the gigantic Imperium. They should know not to mess with the giant empire.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
I'm not watching a Valrak video. Any TLDR?

GW did a thing. The usual armchair lawyers are out telling us how it's exactly the same as always for GW.

It looks like GW went after scalpers who were using the images from the webstore and community pages.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
I'm not watching a Valrak video. Any TLDR?

GW did a thing. The usual armchair lawyers are out telling us how it's exactly the same as always for GW.

It looks like GW went after scalpers who were using the images from the webstore and community pages.

Thanks!

 Grimtuff wrote:

The fact that eBay (and their sister companies. Remember who deals with payment on GW's site) could eat GW for breakfast is here and there though. eBay is fething ruthless and I think GW, for all their good intentions are biting off more than they can chew here. In this scenario GW are the Tau and eBay is the gigantic Imperium. They should know not to mess with the giant empire.

Right up until scalpees complain to eBay about getting ripped off.

 harlokin wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Several years on and GW still doesn't know what copyright means...

I don't codone what the scalpers are doing (though, it's a free market, if you're stupid enough to pay that much then more power to you), but I hope eBay has their back here. GW's just took a swing at a big boy and they're going to realise their arms are too short to box with god.

I don't agree.

I suspect copyright infringement in this case works similarly to how it does on YouTube. If an infringement it is alleged by a company, the video (or in this case sale listing) gets taken down pending a review from Youtube/eBay.

The fact that it is not enforcemable by law is neither here nor there.

Despite how much scalpers suck, this is NOT something we should cheer on even turned on donkey-caves. Because it never, ever, ends with just taking out the donkey-caves and companies have far more power to ruin people's lives through incorrect lawsuits than they should

 harlokin wrote:
GW appear to be taking down scalpers selling Indomitus on eBay, citing copyright infringement.

Chaper Master Valrak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJpQ-df54M0

well GL doing that on polish version of e bay there are singles from boxs, rule books etc from listed. In larger numbers then stores got boxs.

does it mean that places like polish box spliting groups on facebook are going to be taken down too?

This is not a new thing - I've used GW's photos for my eBay listings in the past and had the listing pulled after a GW complaint.

I believe the reason that GW were able to do this is that the scalpers were using GW's photographs of the product.

If you have your own copy, and take photos of it to sell, a similar situation wouldn't arise.

Karol wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
GW appear to be taking down scalpers selling Indomitus on eBay, citing copyright infringement.

Chaper Master Valrak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJpQ-df54M0

well GL doing that on polish version of e bay there are singles from boxs, rule books etc from listed. In larger numbers then stores got boxs.

Dude, you cannot have failed to notice Poland is the IP blackspot of Europe. There's a reason so many 3rd party companies are based out of there and surrounding areas. GW (or in fact, any company) has very little they can do. Same goes for China.

Grimtuff wrote:In this scenario GW are the Tau and eBay is the gigantic Imperium. They should know not to mess with the giant empire.

I'd have thought it was more like GW are a whisper of heresy on a world, and eBay chooses exterminatus, because that's how they are required to respond to copyright and take down notices.

Kanluwen wrote:It looks like GW went after scalpers who were using the images from the webstore and community pages.

Which would be entirely legitimate and reasonable within the law.

As others have said, GW cant prevent you reselling things, but if you use someone elses copyrighted images, rather than pictures of the actual items, you are within the realms of legal slappage.

I don't think that china and poland are the same. Our stores don't have a recasting station at the back of the store.

 harlokin wrote:
I believe the reason that GW were able to do this is that the scalpers were using GW's photographs of the product.

Yep, or the listing didn't comply with eBay's 'Presale policy' (remember it's not officially out yet).

This is gonna sound crazy, but hear me out. What if, instead of Games Workshop trying to stop scalpers by suing them... games workshop stopped scalpers... by... selling enough of the product... that everyone can get it...?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
This is gonna sound crazy, but hear me out. What if, instead of Games Workshop trying to stop scalpers by suing them... games workshop stopped scalpers... by... selling enough of the product... that everyone can get it...?

It could be that they did make enough of the product and if not for the scalpers there would have been plenty to go round. More likely, like any manufacturer, they made an estimate based on previous sales history as to how many units to produce. A business that overproduces a product is not likely to continue to be profitable. It was my understanding that GW have come out and said that they produced more Indomitus boxes than they sold Of Dark Imperium in its entire run. I don’t think GW can be blamed for not anticipating the demand for this one.

As for suing, there is no sign of GW suing anyone. They appear to have made a legitimate complaint regarding copyright infringement of their publicity material, and eBay have responded in accordance with their own policy to uphold that complaint. I really don’t see what all the fuss is about.

beast_gts wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I believe the reason that GW were able to do this is that the scalpers were using GW's photographs of the product.

Yep, or the listing didn't comply with eBay's 'Presale policy' (remember it's not officially out yet).

This would be legitimate use of GW and ebay's power

stratigo wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I believe the reason that GW were able to do this is that the scalpers were using GW's photographs of the product.

Yep, or the listing didn't comply with eBay's 'Presale policy' (remember it's not officially out yet).

This would be legitimate use of GW and ebay's power

So eBay won't be sending GW pig's heads in the mail for loads of spurious legal claims?

Boo.

I am willing to bet that if GW is actively using a legal process to pull down listings through copyright infringement, that the decision to do so likely wasn't made by some rando in marketing. I'd be willing to be that some of their attorneys were thinking that it was at least a defensible legal position. (I'm willing to bet it's using the *exact* image, down to the size in resolution and file size straight from their website. I don't know the legalities, so I won't profess too, but it would seem that the common thread. Do we have an attorney in here that can help us out understanding it?

There will be a legitimate marketing pack, that authorised companies are given for their websites, that is the likes of Element, Wayland etc

Everyone else is not authorised to use GW copyright images, that is, images lifted from GW websites, or improperly acquired marketing packs.

None of the pre-order images are public domain.

Just the same as if you take a photo, put it on your website and someone else steals it to for their own use, without permission. Giving credit for an image is generally insufficient if you own the copyright and assert it.

This is nothing new, GW did this a long while back too, they even targeted 3rd party stores trading with legitimate GW trade accounts. It's why some of the bigger stores still only show a default icon and only show box photos once they get their shipments as they take their own photo of the box itself to put up for sale.

It might be that GW relaxed this policy for a time and have just picked up using it a bit more; or that it was never relaxed its just not really noticed. As noted above regular users have been hit with it too. chances are its been going on for ages and we've just not noticed because it was small profile.

I hate to be the doomsayer here, but there's not a lot that GW can do to scalpers, short of limiting the number of sales and then pulling a 'gotcha!' with a follow-on Made-To-Order box.

I won't lie, though- I've bought a few extra things from the eBay guys because:

1- I'm not going to buy multiple Indomitus boxes and screw someone else out of their fair shot

2- I'm not paying for multiple boxes when I only need a handful of spare models from a second boxed set.

3- $20.00 for a set of bikes isn't a bad deal.