Reroll failed hits before modifiers? (8th)

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**SirGunslinger**

So I was shooting my 3+ BS Paladins at a -1 target with Kaldor Draigo nearby for the reroll failed hit rolls. My opponent then tells me that I can't reroll 3s, since rerolls come before modifiers, so without modifiers the Paladins technically hit, but the modifiers turns it into a miss. I've never encountered this before, is it legit?

**JNAProductions**

SirGunslinger wrote:
So I was shooting my 3+ BS Paladins at a -1 target with Kaldor Draigo nearby for the reroll failed hit rolls. My opponent then tells me that I can't reroll 3s, since rerolls come before modifiers, so without modifiers the Paladins technically hit, but the modifiers turns it into a miss. I've never encountered this before, is it legit?

If the rule reads "Reroll ANY hit roll", then you can reroll 3s.

If it reads "Reroll FAILED hit rolls" then you cannot.

It's really dumb and unintuitive, but that's how it works.

**Ghaz**

Yes. Re-rolls occur before modifiers so you may end up re-rolling a roll that would have hit with the modifier because you missed without it.

**BaconCatBug**

SirGunslinger wrote:
So I was shooting my 3+ BS Paladins at a -1 target with Kaldor Draigo nearby for the reroll failed hit rolls. My opponent then tells me that I can't reroll 3s, since rerolls come before modifiers, so without modifiers the Paladins technically hit, but the modifiers turns it into a miss. I've never encountered this before, is it legit?

Yes, it is legit and has always worked that way. It's why later books tended to replace "re-roll misses" to "re-roll all". Is it stupid that some Marines get better re-roll auras? Yes, but them's the breaks.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: If a rule or ability grants a re-roll on, for example, ‘hit rolls of 1’ (such as a Space Marine Captain’s Rites of Battle ability) does that effect trigger before or after applying modifiers to the hit rolls?
A: Re-rolls always happen before modifiers, so the re-roll ability is triggered before applying modifiers.

For example, let’s imagine a Space Marine (Ballistic Skill 3+) moves and fires a heavy bolter (a Heavy 3 weapon) whilst within range of a Space Marine Captain’s Rites of Battle ability (allowing you to re-roll hit rolls of 1).

The hit dice are rolled and result in a 1, 2 and 5. Re-rolls are applied before modifiers. In this example a single dice is re-rolled because of the Captain’s ability, this time resulting in a 3.

Modifiers are applied after re-rolls. In this example there is a -1 modifier to the hit rolls for moving and firing a Heavy weapon. That means that the post-re-roll scores of 2, 3 and 5 are modified to 1, 2 and 4. Comparing the final results to the model’s Ballistic Skill, only one shot hits the target.