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So, we have the new Transport rules which state that we must disembark BEFORE the Transport moves.

And then we have the Grav-Chute Insertion rule which only works AFTER the Valkyrie has moved, where the models can be placed somewhere along its' route.

I think this is a simply fantastic way to showcase GW's rule creations in its' finest glory! Just like the Eye of Terror!

This is almost as interesting as adding a Commissar to a Tempestus Detachment and still getting the Regimental Trait!

Codex-specific rules trumps those in the main rulebook. Not really an opportunity to start moaning about GW's rules creations.

There is no change here. Worked exactly the same in 8th.

IIRC, there has never been a rule that allowed disembarking after the transport moved unless it had a special rule.

 Slayer6 wrote:
So, we have the new Transport rules which state that we must disembark BEFORE the Transport moves.

And then we have the Grav-Chute Insertion rule which only works AFTER the Valkyrie has moved, where the models can be placed somewhere along its' route.

I think this is a simply fantastic way to showcase GW's rule creations in its' finest glory! Just like the Eye of Terror!

This is almost as interesting as adding a Commissar to a Tempestus Detachment and still getting the Regimental Trait!

There is no change from 8th. The bespoke rule exists for a reason. It is giving your embarked troops permission to disembark. This makes the Valkyrie a little different. The Impluser has something similar (but different).

Regarding the Tempestus Detachment and Commissars, you should read Psychic Awakening The Greater Good. It tells you what you need to know. Its gonna blow your mind.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 Slayer6 wrote:
So, we have the new Transport rules which state that we must disembark BEFORE the Transport moves.

And then we have the Grav-Chute Insertion rule which only works AFTER the Valkyrie has moved, where the models can be placed somewhere along its' route.

I think this is a simply fantastic way to showcase GW's rule creations in its' finest glory! Just like the Eye of Terror!

This is almost as interesting as adding a Commissar to a Tempestus Detachment and still getting the Regimental Trait!

There is no change from 8th. The bespoke rule exists for a reason. It is giving your embarked troops permission to disembark. This makes the Valkyrie a little different. The Impluser has something similar (but different).

Regarding the Tempestus Detachment and Commissars, you should read Psychic Awakening The Greater Good. It tells you what you need to know. Its gonna blow your mind.

You make it sound as if they did something right... could it be?

Anyway, exalting everyone.

 skchsan wrote:
IIRC, there has never been a rule that allowed disembarking after the transport moved unless it had a special rule.

Earlier editions, notably around 3rd and 4th edition. The "Rhino Rush" was a common tactic back then. They changed the rules later to force disembarking before moving the transport in reaction to this tactic in the earlier editions.

Grav-Chute Insertion would override normal transport rules. It also wouldn't make sense to try to do what they're intending by making the passengers jump out at the start of the movement phase, before the Valykrie moves.

 Slayer6 wrote:
So, we have the new Transport rules which state that we must disembark BEFORE the Transport moves.

And then we have the Grav-Chute Insertion rule which only works AFTER the Valkyrie has moved, where the models can be placed somewhere along its' route.

I think this is a simply fantastic way to showcase GW's rule creations in its' finest glory! Just like the Eye of Terror!

This is almost as interesting as adding a Commissar to a Tempestus Detachment and still getting the Regimental Trait!

That was already resolved before and after the GG PA. The Valkyrie rule allows for it to happen afterwards.

Was just about to post a question elsewhere but found this topic.

Regarding the grav chute insertion (and thus precision drop strat) can units disembark from a valkyrie that arrived from strategic reserves on the same turn?

dominuschao wrote:
Regarding the grav chute insertion (and thus precision drop strat) can units disembark from a valkyrie that arrived from strategic reserves on the same turn?

I'd say no... grav-chute insertion has to happen during a move. Turning up from strategic reserves is described specifically as being "set up", much the same as when you deploy or arrive from deep strike - and it also happens in the Reinforcement phase, after you've moved other units. In other words, arriving from reserves doesn't constitute an actual move.

dominuschao wrote:
Was just about to post a question elsewhere but found this topic.

Regarding the grav chute insertion (and thus precision drop strat) can units disembark from a valkyrie that arrived from strategic reserves on the same turn?

I'm inclined to believe that you can because:

1. a unit entering from reserves is counted as if it had moved distance equal to its M value or if it has a minimum movement, it's maximum M value.
2. grav chute insertion allows the valkyrie to disembark after the model has moved.
3. disembarking is not restricted to 'move units' subphase of the movement phase (it just has to occur before the model moves).

Since the maneuver in question abides by all the rules in place, I don't see why it can be illegal.

But on a second read, the conditions for disembarking explicitly states "if a unit starts its Movement phase embarked within a Transport model", which the valkyrie's contents can never fulfill (because if you entered by reinforcement, then the units embarked on it could never have started its movement phase embarked on a vehicle).

Oooh, no, wait - good points skchsan - I'd forgotten about the units having counted as moved, so that's fulfilled. But also, units can embark in a transport even if it's in reserves! It's mentioned that you can start the battle embarked on a Transport instead of being set up separately - and there's nothing about that rule that states the transport has to be on the table first.
This is alluded to on page 256:

the number of CPs required depends on the combined Power Ratings of all the units you wish to place into Strategic Reserves (including those embarked within Transport models that are themselves placed into Strategic Reserves)

You can't 'start' any phase if you're not on the battlefield.

Core rules, pg 12
DISEMBARK
If a unit starts its Movement phase embarked within a Transport
model, that unit can disembark in that phase so long as the model
itself has not yet made a Normal Move, an Advance or has Fallen
Back that phase.

The models attempting to disembark must have had started the movement phase embarked in a transport. Being embarked in a transport in its reinforcement 'locale' =! being embarked in a transport at the start of movement phase.

If you are starting the movement phase in its reinforcement locale, off the battlefield, then it is not starting its movement phase embarked in a transport. You're coming onto the battlefield in the middle of the movement phase, during the reinforcements sub-phase, before your movement phase ends.

Also, doesn't Grav-Chute insertion happen along a line between the start and the end of movement of the Valkyrie? There wouldn't be a defined start point, just "off the board"

 doctortom wrote:
Also, doesn't Grav-Chute insertion happen along a line between the start and the end of movement of the Valkyrie? There wouldn't be a defined start point, just "off the board"

FWIW, you can choose to disembark at its 'end' location.

 skchsan wrote:
You can't 'start' any phase if you're not on the battlefield.

Citations needed, because I do not see anything in the rules that says that.

 skchsan wrote:
You can't 'start' any phase if you're not on the battlefield.

Core rules, pg 12
DISEMBARK
If a unit starts its Movement phase embarked within a Transport
model, that unit can disembark in that phase so long as the model
itself has not yet made a Normal Move, an Advance or has Fallen
Back that phase.

The models attempting to disembark must have had started the movement phase embarked in a transport. Being embarked in a transport in its reinforcement 'locale' =! being embarked in a transport at the start of movement phase.

If you are starting the movement phase in its reinforcement locale, off the battlefield, then it is not starting its movement phase embarked in a transport. You're coming onto the battlefield in the middle of the movement phase, during the reinforcements sub-phase, before your movement phase ends.

Fair point that grav-chute insertion is stated as a disembark, but I still maintain that the unit starts the Movement phase embarked and thus still qualifies.
Here's the quote from page 210:

Units can start the battle embarked within a Transport instead of being set up separately

This points to the decision to embark them happening during deployment, so they're in there before turn 1 begins.


(...side note - given how often people here, myself included, refuse to budge from a position? I'm finding it highly amusing that we've convinced each other to defend the other's original take.)

You cannot disembark from a Valkyrie that deploys from off the board because you have to disembark during the Move Units part of the Movement Phase, not the Reinforcements part of the movement phase. Only during the Move Units part of the Movement Phase are you allowed to select a unit to move, which you must do to disembark. Grav-Chute Insertion must by used during the Valkyrie's move, but deploying as Reinforcement is not moving. In fact, a unit that deploys as Reinforcement is specifically not allowed to move for any reason.

Again, good points alextroy. I change my position back to my original.
...man, I feel like a flip-flop.

Well that clinches it thanks for the help.

How do drop pods work then?

Special rule on the Drop Pod that dictates the embarked unit disembarks immediately upon deployment of the Drop Pod.