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Looking at the rules in the Indomitus box, if an Eradicator model is killed by enemy shooting within 6" of the Bladeguard Ancient, will it get to make two shots? If two Eradicator models are killed, does each trigger a separate shooting phase and can shoot twice but at different targets?

Only if the entire unit dies, and they all roll a 4+ for the banner, they can shoot twice at the same target.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, you can declare this unit will only shoot at a single target. If you do, select one target unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only target that enemy unit.

Astartes Banner
<CHAPTER> units within 6" of any friendly <CHAPTER> ANCIENTS add 1 to their Leadership. In addition, roll a D6 each time a <CHAPTER> INFANTRY model is destroyed within 6" of any friendly <CHAPTER> ANCIENTS, before removing the model as a casualty. On a 4+, that model musters one last surge of stregth before succumbing to its wounds; it can either shoot with one of its weapons as if it were the Shooting phase, or make a single attack as if it were the Fight phase.

Actually, wouldn't that be only for the last model p5freak? On account that you roll saves one at a time, and that the banner triggers each time the infantry model is destroyed (you can't roll the next save until the previous one is resolved, which includes the banner ability)

I think you are right. It would only work for the last model, because that would be the unit.

The way I read it is that if an Eradicator model is destroyed you roll a D6 and if 4+ the model then acts as if it is your shooting phase. You can then declare that the unit will only shoot at a single target. You select a target unit, that model can then shoot twice at that target unit. When you are done the out of sequence shooting phase ends. If another model was destroyed in that unit of Eradicators, even if done by attacks from the same enemy unit, you have to go through the sequence again, allowing you to select a different target unit if you choose. I would definitely send this question to GW so it can be FAQ'd

 KingGarland wrote:
The way I read it is that if an Eradicator model is destroyed you roll a D6 and if 4+ the model then acts as if it is your shooting phase. You can then declare that the unit will only shoot at a single target. You select a target unit, that model can then shoot twice at that target unit. When you are done the out of sequence shooting phase ends. If another model was destroyed in that unit of Eradicators, even if done by attacks from the same enemy unit, you have to go through the sequence again, allowing you to select a different target unit if you choose. I would definitely send this question to GW so it can be FAQ'd

Except one model isnt the unit (unless its the last model).

 p5freak wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:
The way I read it is that if an Eradicator model is destroyed you roll a D6 and if 4+ the model then acts as if it is your shooting phase. You can then declare that the unit will only shoot at a single target. You select a target unit, that model can then shoot twice at that target unit. When you are done the out of sequence shooting phase ends. If another model was destroyed in that unit of Eradicators, even if done by attacks from the same enemy unit, you have to go through the sequence again, allowing you to select a different target unit if you choose. I would definitely send this question to GW so it can be FAQ'd

Except one model isnt the unit (unless its the last model).

I don't think it really matters, a unit is described as "A group of models from the same datasheet". Because of the banners ability only a single model can shot as if it were the shooting phase but you can still declare that the entire unit will only shoot a single target, it doesn't say that the entire unit has to shoot.

 KingGarland wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:
The way I read it is that if an Eradicator model is destroyed you roll a D6 and if 4+ the model then acts as if it is your shooting phase. You can then declare that the unit will only shoot at a single target. You select a target unit, that model can then shoot twice at that target unit. When you are done the out of sequence shooting phase ends. If another model was destroyed in that unit of Eradicators, even if done by attacks from the same enemy unit, you have to go through the sequence again, allowing you to select a different target unit if you choose. I would definitely send this question to GW so it can be FAQ'd

Except one model isnt the unit (unless its the last model).

I don't think it really matters, a unit is described as "A group of models from the same datasheet". Because of the banners ability only a single model can shot as if it were the shooting phase but you can still declare that the entire unit will only shoot a single target, it doesn't say that the entire unit has to shoot.

You only get the shoot twice bonus when the unit (all models) shoot at the same enemy unit, thats what the TO rule says. Individual models dont get that bonus. It would work for one model, if its the last model in the unit.

 p5freak wrote:

You only get the shoot twice bonus when the unit (all models) shoot at the same enemy unit, thats what the TO rule says. Individual models dont get that bonus. It would work for one model, if its the last model in the unit.

It says "In your shooting phase, you can declare this unit will only shoot at a single target. If you do, select one target unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only target that enemy unit."

The sequence is
a) You declare this unit will only shoot at a single target, this is not selecting a target unit.
b) you select one target unit.
c) any model that shoots this phase can shoot twice but can only target the selected unit.

It would be the same as if you had the unit of Eradicators in a formation were only one model can target an enemy unit that is in range. The entire unit declares that it will only target the single unit but because only a single model is in range only it can shoot at the target but still can do so twice.

One model is not the unit, unless the unit is only one model.

 p5freak wrote:
One model is not the unit, unless the unit is only one model.

Even if it's only one model, a model is not the same as a unit.

You're right in saying the Eradicator cannot shoot twice via Astartes Banner, but you never can, even if it's the last Eradicator.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
One model is not the unit, unless the unit is only one model.

Even if it's only one model, a model is not the same as a unit.

You're right in saying the Eradicator cannot shoot twice via Astartes Banner, but you never can, even if it's the last Eradicator.

Why not ?

At worst when a slain model is firing it is the model firing and not the unit firing.

At best all shots would have to be at the same target from the unit still.

In addition proper reading of total obliteration isnt the unit can shoot twice. It is the UNIT can declare in the shooting phase to only shoot at a single target but can..

The banner rule which let's models shoot before dying doesn't give the unit permission to shoot, so you cannot declare total obliteration by RAW from models affected by the banner, it has to be declared by the unit not individual models.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
One model is not the unit, unless the unit is only one model.

Even if it's only one model, a model is not the same as a unit.

You're right in saying the Eradicator cannot shoot twice via Astartes Banner, but you never can, even if it's the last Eradicator.

Are you suggesting here that the "last" eradicator in the unit cannot shoot twice because the "Unit" is not all shooting at the same target? (because the unit has had two eradicators removed) This seems a slippery slope. It could be interpreted to mean once a unit of eradicators loses a model, they can never shoot twice because the "unit" is not complete and therefore cannot ever target an enemy as a unit. Is this coming from the data sheet's description, and GW's limiting the unit to exactly three or six models?

Think this needs more look into what exactly is a "unit", when the "unit" is determined etc. One model can certainly be considered a "unit", right? I mean you can buy units of one model.

That isn't what I was saying.

blaktoof wrote:
At worst when a slain model is firing it is the model firing and not the unit firing.

At best all shots would have to be at the same target from the unit still.

In addition proper reading of total obliteration isnt the unit can shoot twice. It is the UNIT can declare in the shooting phase to only shoot at a single target but can..

The banner rule which let's models shoot before dying doesn't give the unit permission to shoot, so you cannot declare total obliteration by RAW from models affected by the banner, it has to be declared by the unit not individual models.

The same RAW that says the unit cant Obliterate says the model can't fire at all. "As if it's the shooting phase" Step 1 is choose a unit, not a model. No way to get to the model without the unit. The rule for target selection is "When a unit shoots...".

Are you suggesting here that the "last" eradicator in the unit cannot shoot twice because the "Unit" is not all shooting at the same target? (because the unit has had two eradicators removed)

No he's saying a variation of all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs. All models are IN units, but not all models ARE units.

In order to trigger the Shoot Twice, the UNIT has to declare...

But only the model is allowed the bonus shooting phase...

Of course, the UNIT has to be involved for the Shooting Phase rules like target selection...