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Thoughts and opinions appreciated.
Being able to fall back out of cc and have another unit shoot at the unit you fell back from and then being able to charge back in again after falling back sounds good to me

On the surface it feels like it goes against the grain of successful marine builds that lean into how shooty the army has become. They aren't going to be as deadly in melee as Blood Angels, and a lot of the new units aside from maybe Bladeguard Veterans are kind of already doing what a lot of your troops already do (but in the case of Outriders, they just do it very quickly).

But, it's still really early yet, and their mobility is definitely not something to ignore. Auto bolt rifle Intercessors with a Thunder hammer sgt. are now very flippin' fast.

I played a game with white scars vs custodies last week, ended up winning 49 to 48. Very close game.

My mvps were a 5 man terminator squad, 4 with lightning claws and 1 with th/ss. Thanks to the terminator lib dropping in with them 3rd turn those claws were devastating (ap-3 2dmg flat with rerolls to wound?) And they ended up killing 2 shield bike captains by the end of the game without taking a single wound (ss leader ended up being a tank with his 3++).

Also basic intercessors did some serious dmg in cc as well. Getting to the 3rd turn is really important for white scars, everyone becomes a threat in cc at that point.

I also took 2 squads of 8 bikers.... they survived until t3 but didn't do anything to write about besides survived for so long against custodies.

I already have a small blood angels army so was thinking of adding the new units from indomitus to that force as like you said blood angels will far better in cc but would that +1 to wound wipe out more wounds than the same squad if it were white scars that then flee back and had another unit on the table fire at that enemy squad and then the original squad charge back in for another round of cc, I would have thought that would on average deal more wounds than the same combat from a single blood angels unit tied up in the same fight for 2 rounds with the +1 to wound?

Azuza001 wrote:
I played a game with white scars vs custodies last week, ended up winning 49 to 48. Very close game.

My mvps were a 5 man terminator squad, 4 with lightning claws and 1 with th/ss. Thanks to the terminator lib dropping in with them 3rd turn those claws were devastating (ap-3 2dmg flat with rerolls to wound?) And they ended up killing 2 shield bike captains by the end of the game without taking a single wound (ss leader ended up being a tank with his 3++).

Also basic intercessors did some serious dmg in cc as well. Getting to the 3rd turn is really important for white scars, everyone becomes a threat in cc at that point.

I also took 2 squads of 8 bikers.... they survived until t3 but didn't do anything to write about besides survived for so long against custodies.

I am pretty sure that now that the power fist is the same points cost as dual lightning claws, it is actually better than the lightning claws, even with the -1 to hit and less attacks.

Might also depend on if you have buffs, like Khan nearby, though.

Lemondish wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I played a game with white scars vs custodies last week, ended up winning 49 to 48. Very close game.

My mvps were a 5 man terminator squad, 4 with lightning claws and 1 with th/ss. Thanks to the terminator lib dropping in with them 3rd turn those claws were devastating (ap-3 2dmg flat with rerolls to wound?) And they ended up killing 2 shield bike captains by the end of the game without taking a single wound (ss leader ended up being a tank with his 3++).

Also basic intercessors did some serious dmg in cc as well. Getting to the 3rd turn is really important for white scars, everyone becomes a threat in cc at that point.

I also took 2 squads of 8 bikers.... they survived until t3 but didn't do anything to write about besides survived for so long against custodies.

I am pretty sure that now that the power fist is the same points cost as dual lightning claws, it is actually better than the lightning claws, even with the -1 to hit and less attacks.

Might also depend on if you have buffs, like Khan nearby, though.

Its a possibility, I haven't done the math hammer on it yet. In my situation both my captain on bike and khan on bike were dead at that point.

Against custodies on bikes....

4 guys with powerfists on the charge would be putting out 12 attacks hitting on 4's wounding on 3's doing 2-4 dmg at ap-4. The lightning claws put out 16 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 5's rerolling at ap-3 and 2dmg flat. I think the claws come out fine in this setup myself. The extra attacks, the better to hit roll, and rerolling wounds helps counter wounding on 5's.

If we were talking about any other army I would easily agree. Its the jump to 2dmg flat that I think makes them worthwhile.

White Scars have always been one of the best space marine chapters , making tops since the supplement. They are much harder to use than auto play ravenguard, imperial fists or Iron Hands, but they are the best space marine meele chapter.

And with 9th bikes are only better.

a better melee army than blood angels?

Little trick: 4+ wt for staying in combat, then next turn if he survive , swing first.

White scars are very strong this edition.

With the addition of the melee intercessors, you no longer have to waste points on reivers.

Honestly a battalion with 6 squads of intercessors in Impulsors zooming out to coat the feild in obsec durable bodies is likely to win most mission types in 9th.

Assault Intercessors and Bladeguards in Impulsors, Outriders are all good in WS chapter. I think especially the Outrider is good addition to WS, with a stratagem they can fall back, shoot and charge in again. with the numbers of their shots and attacks and being AP-1 in nature, they are devastating to anything weaker than MEQ even in numbers of 3.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
White scars are very strong this edition.

With the addition of the melee intercessors, you no longer have to waste points on reivers.

Honestly a battalion with 6 squads of intercessors in Impulsors zooming out to coat the feild in obsec durable bodies is likely to win most mission types in 9th.

Auto bolt rifle Intercessors with a thunder hammer Sarge are really flipping awesome in Impulsors as WS - don't sleep on them.

should I buy the current white scars supplement or will it be irrelevant when the new SM codex comes out in October?

munnster wrote:
should I buy the current white scars supplement or will it be irrelevant when the new SM codex comes out in October?

They've said it's a new core book, but the supplements are staying (albeit with new DW, DA, BA and SW supplements)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm really hoping for a few things for us in the new book:
-Thunder hammers/fists on assault intercessor sargents
-Bladeguard and outriders to be available in units of >3, to fit better into impulsors and be nice recipients for buffs
-the bladeguard ancient to get the ANCIENT keyword so that he can take the +1S banner to synergise with kor'sarro


Aside from that, really excited to dive into them this edition. Hyped for that chaplain on bike

Got a 2k game in today with White Scars; Pretty casual level of play.

I took;
Smash Captain with all the fixin's
Captain on Bike
3x5 incursors
3 Aggressors
10 vanguard with jump packs, serg with power axe.
5 Inceptors, plasma pistols
2 bikes squads, one double plasma, one double melta. each with attack bike w/multimelta
2 autocannon/lascannon predators
3 eradicators

Played against Iron Hands
Gravis captain
Primaris Chaplain
6 Aggressors
3 Assault centurions
Leviathan, double storm cannon, character upgrade with warlord trait granting 5+ FnP
autocannon/lascannon predator
4x5 intercessors w/auto boltguns
Redemptor w/onslaught everything
Invictor warsuit with the big flamer

Won the game, barely. 65 to 63 I believe. Won it on the secondaries basically.

Highlights include;
My plasma inceptors dropping in under the Captain's aura and erasing the assault cent in less then the full volley, followed by the last 4 wounds from the leviathan, then a couple of intercessors, then his chaplain. The firepower is.....nothing to laugh at. Not QUITE grav devistators on the drop, but close, and they have 3x time the survivability and way more of a chance to do something AFTER the drop. Potential all-star unit going forward....needs more testing IMO.
Smash captain burying the aggressors single handed on the charge, then his gravis captain.
Leviathan erasing everything it was pointed at; Predator first turn with massive overkill. Bike captain second turn, an eradicator, half the wounds off the second predator. God damn thing was basically unkillable. Had to drop 15+ melta shots, a couple of lascannons, 12+ overcharged plasma from the inceptors and predator cannon and a few dozen bolter shots to put it down...and I lucked out because my opponent forgot about the half damage stratagem. I have no good answer to this thing, and I can't even dream something up that will put it down efficiently. Opinions?

Vanguard vets were, again, worthless. ZERO survivabilty in a world with aggressors and Leviathans. Hitting power is nothing for their points....why do I even try on this front? I can't even dream up something that will work. Time to shelf them IMO.
Eradicators were solid. Pounding the leviathan for three straight turns is about as optimal a target I could hope for. Can't go wrong with these guys.
Aggressor were solid on my end. Nothing special with the small squad, but they held their ground and did decent chip damage.
Bikes were almost wiped out turn 1. Only the attack bikes survived, and they went on to kill the predator and chisel a handful of wounds off the levithan. Still one of my favorite units ever.
Incursors were hot garbage. If they did 2 or 3 wounds to intercessors all game I'd be surprised. Spent all game camping objectives. Need to re-think the troops for 9th edition missions. Stalker-rifle intercessors? Sniper scouts? Heavy weapon tacticals? <shrug>

Chapter tactic was.....okay? Advancing and firing assault weapons to full affect was solid a couple of times. Extra damage in melee via assault doctrine never mattered. Not sure I'm going to stick to the White Scars tactic though. Can't really figure out why I'm fiddling with melee setups when almost all of the good/efficient units in the marine arsenal are ranged.

Overall lethality of the game seemed lower by 30-40%. We both had units alive turn 3, so that was nice. New cover rules are a treat in that regard.

Also....jesus christ Leviathan are OP as hell.

I see what your saying about CC Vs Shooting but I think if you want to see some better results from CC you need to invest more in to it rather than just a unit of CC vets. Maybe a 50/50 split of CC units backed with shooting?

munnster wrote:

I see what your saying about CC Vs Shooting but I think if you want to see some better results from CC you need to invest more in to it rather than just a unit of CC vets. Maybe a 50/50 split of CC units backed with shooting?

You are almost certainly correct, but every time I put in a chaplain to buff the melee, or assault intercessors, or assault cents I just look at the point I spent and think.....why not a Repulsor? Aggressors? Grav devs?

It feels like getting melee to the level of top tier ranged damage takes three times the work, and you still have to be in melee and face overwatch and swings back to do it.