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Has anyone thought of homebrewed rules for fast attack or heavy support for scions?
My thoughts are:
Scion bikers: (FA) T4 W2 scions, either twin hot shot lasguns or an assault version of the volley gun.
Satyr: (FA) jeep style buggy with sentinel stats 12" movement, taurox prime style weapons with options for gatling/missile launcher/battle cannon
Sentinel Prime: (HS) armored sentinel with BS3+ and twin weapon options
Harpy: (HS) Tetrarch style tankette with carnodon stats with BS3+, twin lascannons or twin taurox battle cannons. Hull mounted volley gun?

I’d rather that Scions don’t get any new vehicles or units. Maybe just snipers as weapon options. It’s a faction that more explicitly about how the infantry is different and the mainstay.

I could see them inherit the Elysian stuff, so Tauros and Drop sentinels for FA and Tarantulla Batteries for HS. It wouldn't be such a stretch, would be sufficiently different from standard IG and be a small gift to the remaining collectors with Elysian armies that could use them as Scions.

Yeah, if Scions were to have more units, I'd say for Fast Attack some kind of pistoleer jump pack unit - maybe they don't fly far, but it's more used for terrain navigation. Perhaps loaded up on melta bombs and meltaguns alongside hotshot laspistols? Think a cross between 30k Legion Destroyers and Reivers? So, more like they still only get 6" movement, but can take advantage of the Fly keyword and can use that for rapid vertical movement.

As for Heavy Support, I'm a big fan of a heavy sniper kind of unit. Something like autocannon weapon teams, but the autocannon is closer to being a sniper in it's own right. Autocannon teams with character targeting and cameoline? Sounds fun to me.

Jeep and bikers are more of a 'Guard' thing, and even then Bikers shouldn't ever be combat units. We're not Mad Max here.
I'm not going to post up what I'd suggested for them in the past, but think recon bikes and sensor spikes as 'deployables'.

One of the big issues with Scions is the same as with what Skitarii infantry had in 7th: they're fairly well rounded for what they have on their kit and available to them. Both could use a 'Special Weapons Squad' ala Havocs/Devastators as a Heavy Support option. The Rapier would also be a good choice here, giving us a mobile firebase unit/pseudo-Heavy Weapons Team without needing to throw two models on the same base or something.

I'm opposed to the idea of yet another jump pack/pistol oriented unit. Even if it's just terrain navigation, it would still visually feel derivative a bit. Would far, far rather see a Sentinel variant introduced for them as hypocritical as that might sound. A Sentinel that has an AA mount, the Taurox battlecannon, gatling cannon, etc would be a welcome and interesting addition to their arsenal.

I’d rather not that Scions become the dumping ground for
Elysian stuff. If we were forced to get new stuff, for fast attack I’d like a one-man assault craft with a few one-use only missiles, maybe a Gatling cannon, or maybe hot-shot volley guns.
For Heavy Support—something like a LAV-25 with anti-tank or anti-aircraft arms.
Really, though. Heavy weapons and such don’t fit the bill of stormtroopers and Scion lore, so it’s not really necessary beyond a twin-linked hot-shot lasgun.

So...a Taurox Prime.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So...a Taurox Prime.

But bigger and and comparatively faster than a Leman Russ while probably sharing Taurox Prime toughness. Probably no transport. Again. I’d like no new units at all.

That's not the premise of this thread though.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's not the premise of this thread though.

I have suggested what I would like if I was forced to get new units.

Sure, but you don't need to keep reiterating how you "don't want anything new".

Kanluwen wrote:JI'm opposed to the idea of yet another jump pack/pistol oriented unit. Even if it's just terrain navigation, it would still visually feel derivative a bit.

Nah, I feel what you mean by "another jump pack pistol unit" - but I do think I'd like some kind of jump pack unit that's less about speed and more about flexibility/terrain navigation. Like, souped up grav chutes, almost. And, while I initially thought about them having lots of meltaguns and suchlike, I'm wary of how much of an auto-take it would make them, especially paired the rest of the scion style. So I just defaulted to what I think is a cool idea, pistoleers.

The big thing about the idea of pistol jockeys and 'grav-chutes' is that it would feel, IMO, just a bit too much like running a bunch of Tempestor Primes as a Squad with no ability to throw out Orders.

The design space for Scions is a bit small, and not just because they're a subfaction rather than a full faction. It's because the standard unit comes with Deep Strike natively(something Sisters and Marines and Grey Knights and whatnots don't have) and has access to a wide spread of weapons to fulfill several different roles...some of which get sidelined in favor of simply what is 'efficient'.

If I were to have to 100%, absolutely crazy pants on head invent a Scion Fast Attack unit?
I don't think I could wholecloth. That's why I'm partial to the idea of the Sentinel since it's a thing that we know is air-portable in some variants, can be configured for multiple roles and even be setup for fighting in extremely hostile environments.

If I had to come up with something else, I just don't know what I would do! Maybe bring back the concept of the Armoured Fist Squad? Servo-Skull Swarms ala Tau Drones? Some kind of large cyber-mastiff?

For Heavy Support the same issue crops up: what could a Scions Heavy Weapon Squad look like without bringing something esoteric or just being a build out of the main box? Enter the Rapier, a tracked platform that again is air-portable and can be outfitted with a variety of weapon systems.

I get that Scions are the 'scalpel' to the Guard's 'hammer'...but they're also supposed to provide protective details to high ranking Imperial officials. There has to be something that can fill that role somewhere.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sure, but you don't need to keep reiterating how you "don't want anything new".

Does anyone need to do anything? I’ve opined on the subject and given suggestions. Do you need to keep speaking of it?

I haven't a clue for Heavy Support but like everyone else a Sentinel would be RAD as a fast attack choice.

for heavy support, give them a scions only version of the drop in turret that would have hotshot volleyguns on it.

for fast attack, give them a drop sentinal with both a powersword and a plasma cannon or meltagun. Since they are so damn elite, don't let them squad those up, though.

Viola, you can actually make a scion brigade.

I'd say not a Hot Shot volleygun itself but a heavier version of it, like a Multilaser on steroids.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
for heavy support, give them a scions only version of the drop in turret that would have hotshot volleyguns on it.

for fast attack, give them a drop sentinal with both a powersword and a plasma cannon or meltagun. Since they are so damn elite, don't let them squad those up, though.

Viola, you can actually make a scion brigade.

The Hammerfall is a Fortification, not Heavy Support.

Tarantulas, Rapiers, something that would allow for one guy to effectively operate multiple platforms in sequence would fit with the motif of more 'elite' forces.

hmm. whatever it is it has to be made of penetration. All scoins weapons are good at that.

So perhaps a choice of missle launcher or plasma cannon, or a dual shot melta, and a "sentinal powersword" that would be somethign like s5/-3/2 and 3 attacks.

Basically, I want these suckers to be good -- but ultimately dead in about 1 turn or so, unliek actual sentinals which are low threat items and ignored by many opponents. The sentinal primes drop in and its a hot mess till you kill them -- sort of like invictor warsuits, but smaller and cheaper and less sturdy. But yeah, anyone who sees three of these drop in, will be like "ok, THATS GOTTA DIE" and the suits will have to struggle to make their points back as a result.

Multilasers suck so badly I wouldn't sully a scion troop with one, even. No ap in a marine meta? In a SISTERS meta? That's like not shooting!

Maybe a drop sentinel with one or two of the Marine Eradicators Meltarifles? So 2-4 Meltashots and Deep strike? Would match "that thing has to die fast!"

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Maybe a drop sentinel with one or two of the Marine Eradicators Meltarifles? So 2-4 Meltashots and Deep strike? Would match "that thing has to die fast!"

and be even more opprseive stuff , can you imagine how much people would complain, and they allready did , alot, about obliterators...
or plasma bomb scions.

The minitacore. Deepstriking heavy support thing looks a bit like a sentinal but not quite so mobile, and with 4 support "legs" to put down for stability shooting. Scion in an open cockpit in the middle with his laspistol ready in case of boarders!

S4/-1/1 missle barrages are the heart of this sentinal sized scion elite support unit. each battle, they can fire up to 4 of them before the racks run dry. 3d6 blast and INDIRECT fire, range 24 inches, in any turn the minicore doesn't move, it can fire twice instead of once, both in a possible overwatch phase or in normal shooting phase. So you have potentially a turn you could flush the racks entirely in. Note that it has to allocate both first and second shot targets before rolling any dice, so you can't go "oh, wow, I wiped so many orcs, I wanna wipe those instead" you have to say which target(s) you will be attacking before you know your luck. Bs3+, of course.

After firing everything, its an objective holder with a scion on board whose hotshotlaspitsl, krak and frag grenades are not impressive, and can WS4+ with A3 s4/0/1. Speed 7.

I think that would fit the bill of "its scion like -- comes in late, smashes stuff, and dies hard (or turns basicaly useless) fast. I don't think its insanely overpowered -- there are plenty of indirect fire options the gaurd has had that can do multiple dice of sleeting fire. Mostly, its a thematic replacement for the wyvern, I guess, which reliably is putting out 4d6 shots of blast and rerolling all wounds rather than being ap-1. So its not crazy good, its in fact more likely a bit limited by the short range and need to come on board, by its fragility, and such. Given its unlikely to fire round 1 (unless someone stuck a bunch of marine scouts in places they will die anyway) its also less reliable a killer than a simple backline wyvern. So yeah, I would say somewhere cheap. Remember that a 4 man scion squad has 4d6 s3 krakblast as a possible weapon, or 16/-2/1 hotshotvolleyguns, its actually pretty hard to outperform those with this. But indirect, and a different flavor to it, makes it unique.

For Heavy Support (I think this was mentioned in another thread a while back), but some kind of "Anti-Materiel Sniper Team" would fit their SpecOps type feel.

2 Guys, one with some kind of stripped down 'autocannon-lite' weapon (48", Heavy 1, S7, AP-1, D2). 2nd Guy is a spotter, and while he lives, the gun gets an extra -1 AP. 9 points each guy, 7 for the gun. Maybe even add a camo-cloak type option.

For Fast Attack, I do like the idea of a Drop-Sentinel, with the option for a Hot-shot Volley Gun.

Volley Gun is too small for a Sentinel. If it's a volley-gun, it should be twin or even quad.

Spotter shouldn't be an extra AP. Should be ability to target characters while otherwise it acts as normal.

I was always under the assumption that MT vehicles play anti-infantry by means of high ROF weapons (via vultures & valkyries) and MT infantries play anti-vehicle by means of deepstriking special weapons.

What exactly would be the purpose, in terms of playstyle/strategy, to include dedicated fast attacks/heavy support units?

Allowing for you to:
1) Field a purely Scions army
2) Not have to rely solely upon Imperial Navy units or kamikaze Scions to get some stuff done.

Vultures and Valkyries aren't MT vehicles. They're Imperial Navy.