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Hi.

Engage On All Fronts secondary objective declares you score points if you meet certain conditions with units AND "those units are more than 6" from the centre of the battlefield".

What is "more than 6" from the centre of the battlefield" for units? Does every model in the unit need to be wholly outside of 6", or just some part of at least one model?

Thanks.

Rihgu wrote:
Hi.

Engage On All Fronts secondary objective declares you score points if you meet certain conditions with units AND "those units are more than 6" from the centre of the battlefield".

What is "more than 6" from the centre of the battlefield" for units? Does every model in the unit need to be wholly outside of 6", or just some part of at least one model?

Thanks.

It means no part of any model in the unit can be within 6" of the centre of the battlefield. GW AM GUD AT ROOLZ

I believe the intent is that the unit is entirely outside of 6” of the centre, but as written a unit can be both within 6” of the centre and more than 6” from the centre at the same time. It is not an exclusive measurement.

 Yarium wrote:
I believe the intent is that the unit is entirely outside of 6” of the centre, but as written a unit can be both within 6” of the centre and more than 6” from the centre at the same time. It is not an exclusive measurement.

Right, fair point. It doesn't say not within 6", it says more than 6". GW Strikes again!

Aw man, I was really hoping BCB would come in here with a rule citation I missed that made this work.

I sent an email to GW FAQ as per Yarium's point a unit can be both more than 6" away and also within 6" and intent is difficult to determine. My assumption of intent is that it is meant to be "not within" as opposed to "more than".

Or it could say "Wholly more than". It's funny because they did the exact same mistake with deployment zones in 8th at launch.

Me thinks the unit its meant to be wholly outside of 6" from the center of the battlefield.

 p5freak wrote:
Me thinks the unit its meant to be wholly outside of 6" from the center of the battlefield.

I suspect that was their intention, even though they muddled things by not saying "wholly"

Well "Distances are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from" P. 5 9th ed 40k rules

"When measuring distances to and from objective markers, always measure to and from the closest part of that objective marker" P. 24 th ed 40k rules

So Either:
GW seems to equate the center of a battlefield as an objective marker for this purpose (As they do not talk about measuring to anything other than a model or objective marker). So It means no part of any model in the unit can be within 6" of the center of the battlefield.

Or

You can not measure to or from "the centre of the battlefield" as there are only 2 things the 9th ed rules talk about measuring to/from.

We should pick the interpretation that does not make the Secondary Objective do nothing.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Well "Distances are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you’re measuring to and from" P. 5 9th ed 40k rules

"When measuring distances to and from objective markers, always measure to and from the closest part of that objective marker" P. 24 th ed 40k rules

So Either:
GW seems to equate the center of a battlefield as an objective marker for this purpose (As they do not talk about measuring to anything other than a model or objective marker). So It means no part of any model in the unit can be within 6" of the center of the battlefield.

Or

You can not measure to or from "the centre of the battlefield" as there are only 2 things the 9th ed rules talk about measuring to/from.

We should pick the interpretation that does not make the Secondary Objective do nothing.

it doesn't do nothing. If the unit is wholly within 6", you can't achieve it. You're once again conflating "I don't like it." with "The rule doesn't work."

Shocking no-one, I’m about to post “the intention is abundantly clear and this will not be an issue in any actual games”. There. Done. Everyone knows from the plain English exactly what this rule means but some people find semantic bickering enjoyable. Each to their own.

There we go. Let’s consign this one to the ‘internet-only problem’ file and get on with playing games. If you care enough to write essays, write to GW as it seems the OP did.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
it doesn't do nothing. If the unit is wholly within 6", you can't achieve it. You're once again conflating "I don't like it." with "The rule doesn't work."

And again you are incorrect. I am not conflating anything.

I do not care one way or the other.

So it is 100% not a matter of "I don't like it." because i don't give a F*** about it. I do not care how the rule works, as long as the rule actually works.

The "it does nothing" means we can not measure to it, because we have no way within the rules to do so. (Normally measuring would be a english thing, but they define measuring in the rules, and do not define how to measure to something that is not an objective or model).

So barring that, we should chose the interpretation that makes the rule do something rather than nothing. Because that is how rules work.

From 'Within and Wholly Within', page 199 of the Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules:

If a rule says it affects units that are ‘within', then it applies so long as any part of any model’s base (or hull) in that unit is within the specified distance.

With that, we know that so long as any part of any model’s base (or hull) in that unit is within 6" of the centre of the battlefield, then the unit is not more than 6" from the centre of the battlefield.

Ghaz has it. Since the units have to be more than 6" from the center of the board. Since measurement of units is to the closest model, a unit within 6" of the center of the board is not more than 6" from the center of the board.

Still, after all the effort GW went through precisely defining so many things, they really should have said not within 6" of the center of the board. They also should have included rules for measuring distances from points of the board. They assume commons sense will work here, but this is Warhammer

Actually, if we're using Ghaz's rule quote (which doesn't apply, by my reading, as the rule in question never mentions "within"), then we measure any part of any model's base, so if 1 model was within 6" and the rest out, or if a single model was partially within 6" and the rest out, the unit would be outside of 6".
edit: to clarify, I'm refuting that the measurement of units is to the closest model, since the rules quote from Ghaz specifically says it's any part of any model. But, again, I would say that doesn't apply because it applies when a rule says "a unit within" not "a unit more than".

I agree that they should have said "not within" if that was their intention. But it could also be their intention for it to be "not wholly within". We can't discern based on the verbiage and existing rules.

Rihgu wrote:
Actually, if we're using Ghaz's rule quote (which doesn't apply, by my reading, as the rule in question never mentions "within"), then we measure any part of any model's base, so if 1 model was within 6" and the rest out, or if a single model was partially within 6" and the rest out, the unit would be outside of 6".
edit: to clarify, I'm refuting that the measurement of units is to the closest model, since the rules quote from Ghaz specifically says it's any part of any model. But, again, I would say that doesn't apply because it applies when a rule says "a unit within" not "a unit more than".

I agree that they should have said "not within" if that was their intention. But it could also be their intention for it to be "not wholly within". We can't discern based on the verbiage and existing rules.

The rule I quoted applies, since we're looking for the opposite of that rule. So we know that being "... more than 6" from the centre of the battlefield..." can not have "... any part of any model’s base (or hull) in that unit is within the specified distance..." because that is the definition of 'within' and not 'more than'.