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Hey folks, 1750pt competitive list with 5CP.

Comments welcome!

Astra Militarum - Battallion - 1290pts
Gunnery Experts, Spotters, -1CP
HQ - 725pts
Tank Commander
+Demolisher Cannon, Lascannon, Multi melta sponsons
+Tank Ace (-1CP) Slow & Purposeful

Tank Commander
+Demolisher Cannon Lascannon, Multi melta sponsons

Tank Commander
+Executioner Cannon, Plasma cannon sponsons, Lascannon

Troops - 135pts
3x Militarum Tempestus Scions (5man)

Fast Attack - 430pts
3x Hellhound
+ Hull heavy flamer, inferno cannon

1x Scout Sentinel

1x Scout Sentinel

Codex Space Marines - Salamanders - Patrol Detachment - 460pts
Long range marksman, Stealthy, -6CP
HQ - 150pts
Captain
+Thunderhammer, Stormshield, Salamanders Mantle Relic
+Chapter Master (-2CP), Exemplar of the Promethean Creed (-1CP), Trust of Prometheus (-1CP), Forge Master Trait 1, Never Give Up Trait 2

Troops - 70pts
1x Scout Squad (5man)

Elites - 240pts
6x Agressors
+Flamestorm gauntlets

= 1750

I used to enjoy having a melee captain in 8th edition - Having some form of viable melee threat was really useful. In 9th that still rings true, along with the ability to occupy and hold the midfield. I've struggled with that, hellhounds seemed good but not sufficent. Ogrns/bullgryns felt lack lustre.

The tank commanders provide some superb reliable firepower. 24" improved to 30" range, and smaller boards, I'm hoping will make the difference! Scout sentinels are very efficient, very mobile. Scions get to deep strike for free and again, efficiently costed. The hellhounds are a strong unit, fits well in the "throw into the middle" category. Oh initially I had no objective secured troops with the original DKOK grenadiers.. Now i've got 4 5-man squads that can deploy/deep strike + Never Give Up obsec Aggressors or Captain.

When I saw the tournament winning list from Alex Harrisons, I looked at the captain/aggressors and realised that A) There is my melee threat, B) That guy is a literal tank (I love tanks) and C) OMG Aggressors are flamey awesome (I love flamers). And now that Aggressor flamers are likely to get 12" range, 15" guns with a 20" threat seems pretty good.

The downside is the low 5CP I have remaining. However a large majority of the list is self sufficent, doesn't need CP to function.

First issue is, in competitive play, vigilis detachments (and thus relics) are out, GW has stated no longer permitted.

DKOK conquerer, if it is still permitted in the game (the regular conquerers aren't) has the option of old to take a coaxial heavy stubber rather than storm bolter, which brings its reroll range out to a whopping 36 inches of their 48 inch CBC range.. I commend that idea to you!
(I don't DKOK so I may be remembering this one wrong, but its worth a check.)

i believe the DKOK plasma executioner can take hull and sponsor mounted plasma cannons from what i can see you lose a lascannon but gain alot of threat at 48'.

Amended the list following feedback.

I'm gonna try out the longer-range punisher, and try out a plasma-ball executioner.

5 squads of obsec scions feels right, given all the feedback I'm hearing about objectives and mobility.

Warning. You cannot take 4 tank commanders with the rule of three limit on any unit.

You also can only take 3 squads of scout sentinals (but you can take 2 squads of 1 and 1 squad of 3)

No special weapons on your tempestus squads?

Thanks guys - back to the drawing board.

Rule of three, I approve of the principle but damnit, I forgot!

That's happened to me many times. You start with one idea, fix one thing, fix another, fix another, someone gives advice, oh, you forgot the astropath, and suddenly you look and wonder why your battalion has 9 elites and only 2 troops. Or whatever!

I think working out what you want with an army, the design constraints and goals, is useful.

Heres my thinking;

- Tank commanders x 3 (Some good quality firepower)
- Leman russ tanks only-if they are conquerors - because 165pt vehicles with a 4+ to hit is rubbish.
- Hellhounds x 3-4 (Good quality horde clearing. Compares favourably vs. punishers against infantry per-point, is super mobile and explodes!).
- Tank aces x 2 (Re-roll 1's to wound seems excellent for things like demolishers.)
- Synergise Spotter detail on low ranged weapons + gunnery expert with blast/flamer weapons.
- Cheap infantry. DKOK grenadiers are overall cheaper than infantry squads and I would wager die much the same. The smaller wound count offset by the better save/easier to hide/easier to overkil (which is effective wounds saved elsewhere).
- Mobility... So hellhounds, scout sentinels and scions (free turn 1 deepstrike!). Sentinels seem especially effecient for mobile board control. 35pts for a 6 wounds
- Other sources-of-killyness-which-aren't-my-3-tank-commanders. Hm

I'm a bit stuck on slots / detachments. But if I go double patrol + Battalion, my problems are solved?

So you get a few extra woudns on the enemy, so what? Full firepower from a TC with a demolisher is already killing most of his targets to death without it, but the fragile leman russ body has trouble surviving to fire again. Force him to deal with a tank that is -1 to each incoming shot's woudns and is hanging out in cover to get another -1 to be hit, maybe, and just keep shooting him at full power till he sighs, and commits enough to kill you. Alternately, give the tank an extra point of armor, and be sure to park it in cover so that it has TWO extra points of save, and suddenly a manticore on the backline has its incoming firepower cut by half. Your tank commander is almost certain to live long enough against many incoming weapons to fire an extra time, as even lascannons and plasma have trouble doing that final hit.

That's a game changer -- but 1 or 2 wounds rerolls extra probably isn't, as you have already crippled the enemy tank .. or killed it .. with your demolisher's other shots, and your own tank is going down a turn earlier as the cost of that asset.

Quantity has its own sort of quality.

Updated the list...
Spare CP = ...
Tanks = Check
Melee Threat = Check
Anti tank = Check
(lots of that)
Horde control = Check
Obsec = Check
Midfield = Check

I confess I like it, even though I would probably do the 6 aggressors as ravengaurd so that their captain and they could master of ambush all over the place on turn 0.

I mean, I think this is pretty darn strong in nine.

Thanks for that!

Any other improvements or comments folks?

Scout sentinals' value is large part the ability ot scoutmove out on turn 1/2 (after scouts are done, but before the game)

But since oyu opened the door to scouts, marine, you could perhaps consider a second scouts squad instead of the pair -- and just START where you want to be, on turn zero.

If I recollect right, scouts are also obsec, and a smidge hardier than pure raw gaurd infantry.

I dunno if I would do that, but it seems like 10 bolter shots from 5 scouts (blam) beats 3 multilaser shots from two scout sentinal, the scouts can bolter doubletap for 10 shots s4 hitting on 3's where the single multilaser puts out 6 s6 hitting on 4's. the scouts are decent in a lot of ways, not GREAT, but decent.

When the aggressors lose their doubleshoot ability in about a month (my sources warn me) this may be more important than it now is.

The scout sentinels are there for 6 T5 wounds that are mobile. Problem with scouts is its double the points.

I need the models for mobility and target saturation.

However, interesting about aggressor nerfs. I wonder if they'll still be good enough, compared to other options.