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I’m looking at the CSM codex

But they have 14 specific options and khorne beserkers are basically plasma pistol, chainsword Or chainaxe

And chain sword is default option

Possibly it's either that they're a new-ish kit so have more options in the box; or that out of the Cult Marines they've the sanest and most Marine-like - Beserkers are mad and Rubrics are magic dust in a suit, for example.

Models. Berserkers are old kit with little options. Plague marines lot newer and thus has options actually.

No model, no rule. There's options in berserker kit, there's no rules for options.

Yup. Plague Marines got a new kit in 8th and a lot of new stuff because of Death Guard getting their own codex. Most of the rest of the csm codex is stuck with old data sheets with old options that were reduced even more in the 8th edition codex from what we had in the already sad 6th/7th and 4th/5th codexes.

Fluff wize it might reflect Mortarions doctrine that every Marine should be able to do every role, so Plague Marines can do everything but heavy weapons because Morty also didn't like heavy weapons on his marching infantry.

Plague Marines were also set up to be the Big Bad of 8th and got a lot of love from GW in the first few years.

Also, to be fair, Rubricae also have two choices of primary weapon and a unique special weapon, as well as enormous customizability via CULT psychic powers. Both, to be fair, lose access to the extensive 'generic' heavy weapons list for their signature stuff.

It's only really bezerkers and noise marines who need more options, since they've got a painfully old kit. The latter still being one of the few finecast/plastic hybrids.

I'd like to think we'd see a bunch of scarier chain weapons in a putative bezerker release - chain greataxe, chainglaive, chain hammer, that sort of thing.

(The latter is in heresy, but it's a hammer on a chain, not a hammer with a chainblade, disappointingly)

Chainglaives are also a thing in HH

locarno24 wrote:
I'd like to think we'd see a bunch of scarier chain weapons in a putative bezerker release - chain greataxe, chainglaive, chain hammer, that sort of thing.

(The latter is in heresy, but it's a hammer on a chain, not a hammer with a chainblade, disappointingly)

Black Crusade has a proper chain hammer in it's Khorne expansion. There it's exactly as you imagine it, hammer with chainblades on the head.

My opinion is that it's specifically because Death Guard and Thousand Sons got their own new Codexes. That ties in in two ways:

- where they got new release waves, the kits needed something new and extra to convince some existing players to buy the new versions of the units.
- those units are now the core troops of those books, as opposed to being the specialised Elites that they were before. So they needed to be a bit more versatile, as players would be taking a few units of them - as opposed to maybe just one unit in a more vanilla Chaos Marine force.

Well the PM used in other legions don't have access to all of that stuff unless that ally with a DG detachment. The CSM faction that has its own codex but that was really shafted is the Thousand Sons which has a piddling number of models.

Because GW likes creating false options for the player to take

I concur with the others regarding the newest kit but to add to that I expect it's also down to needing to match closely with the Tactical Space Marine boxes that also have a ton of variety.

Other thing to consider is fluff. Khorne Berzerkers are very much about assault whilst Plague Marines are much more rounded. Can't be more rounded without providing the options to become rounded

 Sim-Life wrote:
Plague Marines were also set up to be the Big Bad of 8th and got a lot of love from GW in the first few years.

Not true. Beyond they the initial release, Death Guard were completely ignored for the rest of 8th until War of the Spider.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yup. Plague Marines got a new kit in 8th and a lot of new stuff because of Death Guard getting their own codex. Most of the rest of the csm codex is stuck with old data sheets with old options that were reduced even more in the 8th edition codex from what we had in the already sad 6th/7th and 4th/5th codexes.

Welp Thousand Sons got their own codex too and Rubric marines also got a new kit and still they could only think about giving them 2 weapon options and a single heavy weapon you can only get in 10 models so...

Well, plague marines had this thing where they were a resilient squad that could take multiple special weapons but no heavy weapons.
Rubrics always had a powerful baseline with inferno bolters and a psyker but no other options.

They simply are completely different units.

True. Can't explain that. Maybe gw just isn't as into ancient Egyptian stuff as much as zombies?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yup. Plague Marines got a new kit in 8th and a lot of new stuff because of Death Guard getting their own codex. Most of the rest of the csm codex is stuck with old data sheets with old options that were reduced even more in the 8th edition codex from what we had in the already sad 6th/7th and 4th/5th codexes.

Welp Thousand Sons got their own codex too and Rubric marines also got a new kit and still they could only think about giving them 2 weapon options and a single heavy weapon you can only get in 10 models so...

in fairness given rubrics are basicly mindless automatons giving them a ton of weapons options so that each one can be unique seems a bit silly.

BrianDavion wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yup. Plague Marines got a new kit in 8th and a lot of new stuff because of Death Guard getting their own codex. Most of the rest of the csm codex is stuck with old data sheets with old options that were reduced even more in the 8th edition codex from what we had in the already sad 6th/7th and 4th/5th codexes.

Welp Thousand Sons got their own codex too and Rubric marines also got a new kit and still they could only think about giving them 2 weapon options and a single heavy weapon you can only get in 10 models so...

in fairness given rubrics are basicly mindless automatons giving them a ton of weapons options so that each one can be unique seems a bit silly.

Well they're still 10,000 years old Elite Cult warriors. What's silly is the notion that in all those years the sorcerers failed to make them able to hold anything else, something the average intercessor can manage with 5-6 years of training.

Sumilidon wrote:
I concur with the others regarding the newest kit but to add to that I expect it's also down to needing to match closely with the Tactical Space Marine boxes that also have a ton of variety.

Other thing to consider is fluff. Khorne Berzerkers are very much about assault whilst Plague Marines are much more rounded. Can't be more rounded without providing the options to become rounded

Funny thing is there's plenty of room for upgrades for assault so it's not like berserkers couldn't have various melee upgrade options. But of course there's no models for that so.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
True. Can't explain that. Maybe gw just isn't as into ancient Egyptian stuff as much as zombies?

Sprue comparison:

Rubrics get 10 fully posable marines with both warp bolter and warpflamer for all of them, the soul reaper cannon, bits to upgrade one to a sorcerer, including all three pistol options and an icon.
Plague Marines get 7 mono-pose marines which, thanks to mono-pose tech, translate into the following in reality:
Marine 1 can have either dual knifes, bolter+icon or bolter
Marine 2 can have either axe+mace or axe+knife or bolter
Marine 3 can have either flail or bolter
Marine 4 can have either blight launcher or axe+knife or bolter
Marine 5 can have either plasma gun or plaguebelcher or melta or bolter
Marine 6 can have either heavy plague spitter or great plague cleaver or bolter
Marine 7 can either be a champion with melee weapon and pistol or a bolter marine

To build one unit of melee plague marines, you need to buy at least two boxes and that still leaves you short of axe+knife marines. That should answer your question for the "why".

The grass is always greener on nurgle's side. Be happy for what you have, as options aren't all upside, especially not in times of mono-build.

Now kit definitly. The AoS berzerkers are kind of a new too, and they have weapon options too. Axs,cool two handed axs etc. Maybe new zerkers would be like that too. Chains axs and swords for the mooks, then two handed weapons as one in X squad weapons, and options for the squad leader.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
True. Can't explain that. Maybe gw just isn't as into ancient Egyptian stuff as much as zombies?

Sprue comparison:

Rubrics get 10 fully posable marines with both warp bolter and warpflamer for all of them, the soul reaper cannon, bits to upgrade one to a sorcerer, including all three pistol options and an icon.
Plague Marines get 7 mono-pose marines which, thanks to mono-pose tech, translate into the following in reality:
Marine 1 can have either dual knifes, bolter+icon or bolter
Marine 2 can have either axe+mace or axe+knife or bolter
Marine 3 can have either flail or bolter
Marine 4 can have either blight launcher or axe+knife or bolter
Marine 5 can have either plasma gun or plaguebelcher or melta or bolter
Marine 6 can have either heavy plague spitter or great plague cleaver or bolter
Marine 7 can either be a champion with melee weapon and pistol or a bolter marine

To build one unit of melee plague marines, you need to buy at least two boxes and that still leaves you short of axe+knife marines. That should answer your question for the "why".

The grass is always greener on nurgle's side. Be happy for what you have, as options aren't all upside, especially not in times of mono-build.

Hey, I feel you. The new csm kit doesn't include enough bolters or chainswords to build a pure squad of either. It's almost like they do stuff like that on purpose.....

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Hey, I feel you. The new csm kit doesn't include enough bolters or chainswords to build a pure squad of either. It's almost like they do stuff like that on purpose.....

The difference between a blightlord terminator with combi-bolter and combi-plasma/flamer/melta is one tiny bit that isn't half as big as my thumbnail, and you'd only need three of each to supply the entire unit. Even William of Ockham would agree that they are doing this on purpose.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
True. Can't explain that. Maybe gw just isn't as into ancient Egyptian stuff as much as zombies?

Sprue comparison:

Rubrics get 10 fully posable marines with both warp bolter and warpflamer for all of them, the soul reaper cannon, bits to upgrade one to a sorcerer, including all three pistol options and an icon.
Plague Marines get 7 mono-pose marines which, thanks to mono-pose tech, translate into the following in reality:
Marine 1 can have either dual knifes, bolter+icon or bolter
Marine 2 can have either axe+mace or axe+knife or bolter
Marine 3 can have either flail or bolter
Marine 4 can have either blight launcher or axe+knife or bolter
Marine 5 can have either plasma gun or plaguebelcher or melta or bolter
Marine 6 can have either heavy plague spitter or great plague cleaver or bolter
Marine 7 can either be a champion with melee weapon and pistol or a bolter marine

To build one unit of melee plague marines, you need to buy at least two boxes and that still leaves you short of axe+knife marines. That should answer your question for the "why".

The grass is always greener on nurgle's side. Be happy for what you have, as options aren't all upside, especially not in times of mono-build.

Hey, I feel you. The new csm kit doesn't include enough bolters or chainswords to build a pure squad of either. It's almost like they do stuff like that on purpose.....

Thats why, when I was playing, I threw WYSIWYG out the window. GW intentionally releases kits under-optioned. Its very much a thing for chaos players. It also means I couldnt play in WYS tournaments, but I refuse to buy 4 boxs of havocs to have a proper loadout for one squad(just an example). Out of all the "tricks" GW pulls for higher sales, this is the worst.

Table wrote:
Thats why, when I was playing, I threw WYSIWYG out the window. GW intentionally releases kits under-optioned. Its very much a thing for chaos players. It also means I couldnt play in WYS tournaments, but I refuse to buy 4 boxs of havocs to have a proper loadout for one squad(just an example). Out of all the "tricks" GW pulls for higher sales, this is the worst.

Depends. For different flavors of combi-bolters or axes/swords/knives I agree, but for some more iconic weaponry like a great plague cleaver, flail or blight launcher I'd at least convert something looking similar.

Many of my opponent also impose WYSIWYG on themselves, so it feels wrong if I don't do it as well.

Pretty sure the real reason the Plague marines have so many options is because Maxime Pastourel designed the models based on his own converted Death Guard army, and wanted to give them different weapons. The rules flowed from that. If and when new berserkers get done I expect they will get more melee weapon options.

pgmason wrote:
Pretty sure the real reason the Plague marines have so many options is because Maxime Pastourel designed the models based on his own converted Death Guard army, and wanted to give them different weapons. The rules flowed from that. If and when new berserkers get done I expect they will get more melee weapon options.

This seems to be the relevant article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/22/army-showcase-maxime-pastourels-plague-marines-june22gw-homepage-post-4/

Ironically, it seems like he invalidated his entire army with Codex: Death Guard. Still, beautiful models.