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Hello,

I'm a near total newbie. Years ago I played a bit of Vassal40k, but I never got around actually collecting and building a real army.
However, I do love 40k in general, played most video games and have a few novels.

I'm a roleplayer at heart, so I'm not really interested in a tryhard competitive army. OTOH, especially for a newbie, an army that can't get a win (due to skill necessary or being a weak list) is also not fun at all.

This list is based around a few key elements/thoughts, which are important and need to be preserved
1) I love Sisters of Battle
1.1) I love the Repentias, but they're only necessary if the SoB-half of the list stays melee-focussed
1.2) I the love Seraphim Squads, at least one needs to be present.
1.3) I'd like one Immolator as well
2) I love Imperial Knights
2.1) I'd like to keep the Crusader, I just love how it looks - especially with the RFBC and the Gatling. But I do like to keep it flexible and would change weaponry depending on the encountered enemy (Thermal Cannon, other missiles/Icarus, etc.) - Points needed for that would be "taken" from Battle Sisters or Repentia squads


+++ Sisters of Battle with Imperial Knights (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [105 PL, 4CP, 1,992pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [61 PL, 11CP, 1,122pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose (Melee-Nuns, whee! Also, should complement the more dakka-focussed Knights)
+ Stratagems +
Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

+ No Force Org Slot +
[Repentia SQUAD] - Repentia Superior [2 PL, 40pts]: Bolt pistol (Just someone to crack the whip for the Repentias)

+ HQ +
[1st SQUAD] - Canoness [3 PL, 60pts]: Bolt pistol, Brazier of Holy Fire, Chainsword, Relic: Beneficence, Warlord (More better Melee-Nun, with help of the missionary, conviction and better wroom-sword)
[1st SQUAD] - Missionary [3 PL, 45pts] . Bolt Pistol and Shotgun

+ Troops +
[1st SQUAD HQ] - Battle Sister Squad [7 PL, 103pts] (8 sisters + canoness + missionary + rhino)
. 5x Battle Sister: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Flamer
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

[2nd SQUAD Immolator] - Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 65pts] (They've got an Immolator, cause I like the idea )
. 3x Battle Sister: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

[3rd SQUAD] - Battle Sister Squad [7 PL, 125pts] (Just a full Rhino)
. 7x Battle Sister: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Flamer
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +
[Repentia SQUAD] - Imagifier [3 PL, 45pts]: Tale of the Warrior (Make melee-nuns even more melee-nunny)

[Repentia SQUAD] - Sisters Repentia [6 PL, 120pts] (Supermelee-nuns!)
. 8x Sisters Repentia: 8x Penitent Eviscerator

+ Fast Attack +
Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 80pts] (I just love them, especially with some 3rd party wings :3 ...)
. 4x Seraphim: 8x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Seraphim Superior: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 80pts] (... also, they should help with some flanking)
. 4x Seraphim: 8x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Seraphim Superior: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +
[2nd SQUAD] - Immolator [6 PL, 125pts]: Heavy bolter, Immolation Flamer
[1st SQUAD HQ] - Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter
[3rd SQUAD] - Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter
[Repentia SQUAD] - Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter

++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [44 PL, -7CP, 870pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment CP [-6CP]
Household Choice: Questor Imperialis
. House Terryn
+ Stratagems +
Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom

+ Lord of War +
Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 175pts] (as said, more dakka-focussed Knights to complement the melee-nuns)
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 175pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Knight Crusader [26 PL, 520pts]: Character (Heirloom of the House), Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom (Terryn): Thunder of Voltoris, Ironstorm Missile Pod (This one is flexible, it shows the "default" config, but depending on encounter it could also retain it's Thermal Cannon, get the Twin Icarus or have other changes. Points needed would be drawn from probably the Repentias or 3rd Battle Sister Squad)
. Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber: Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon

Cheers cy!

I love the list idea and how you have it built. The only thing I have to say is I think youll have more CP if you make one of your knights the warlord because itll refund the Cost of the super heavy detachment since its knights. This way you can have more fun to beef up your list.

You could also give thatknight 2+ save as a warlord trait whuch might help a lot in an edition full of hordrs. I now believe that is where early nine is headed.

Thanks for the replies

So, I read a few things (both here and elsewhere) and came up with a second variation of the idea.
The first version had a 1122 to 870 split in favor of the Sisters, as well as only 4 CP left (thanks panda for the warlord-idea)

And while I like the melee-nuns, I'm not sure the army-synergy is really that good. Knights are beasts in CQB even just with their feet, so I don't think I need a dedicated CQB-second-half-of-army. In addition, the 1122 points are... feeling kinda weird, tbh.

So I thought about a different approach I read and adapted it to my liking. Comments again within the list.


+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [102 PL, 7CP, 1,998pts] +++

++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [76 PL, 11CP, 1,460pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Household Choice: House , Household Tradition: Oathkeepers, Household Traditions (Codex), Questor Imperialis (While I'd love to use a Mechanicus-tradition, it really doesn't make sense fluff-wise. Oathkeepers is nice to have the Knights not crumble stats-wise under fire. They'll be bumped down one category in M/WS/BS at 1/4 of their W left instead of 1/2)

+ Stratagems +

Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [27 PL, 525pts] (The previous iteration had one additional Crusader (same config as below, no heirlooms), but I'm tinkering with 3 Helverins instead. Damage-wise it's a bit of a wash, the Crusader probably has more damage overall and some versatility with the Ironstorm Missiles. OTOH, this places 3 "bodies" on the board that need dealing with instead of one - Dunno, feedback very much appreciated in this point.)
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Knight Crusader [26 PL, 490pts]: Character (Heirloom of the House), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Endless Fury, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon (So, one thing I read up was comparisons of Knight weaponry. And I agree that the RFBC isn't much of a different weapon than the Gatling in damage output. And sure, the range is nice, but it's also kinda overkill mostly. The Thermal Cannon OTOH adds something really, really unholy against heavily armored targets.)

Knight Warden [23 PL, 445pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Reaper Chainsword, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Knight Seneschal (I agree with Duke, if I wanna place the Knights on the board as some form of r*tard magnet, as well as "get gak done" units, they should be tough: +2 heirloom it is. I know the Warden isn't the best idea overall, but I have a thing for chainswords )

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [26 PL, -4CP, 538pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-2CP]

Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart ("6++ invul-invul" is nice for staying power, as is AP-1 counts as AP0)

+ Stratagems +

Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

+ HQ +

Canoness [3 PL, -1CP, 50pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Heroine in the Making, Relic: Wrath of The Emperor, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief (Everyone around her now has 5+ invul, and I do like the special Bolt pistol - and as noted before, I just like chainswords )

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 80pts] (Both of these are thought to mostly sit around and capture points, the first one has the Canoness with them)
. 2x Battle Sister: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Boltgun, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-melta (So annoyed I had to take away her inferno pistol, but I was lacking 3 pts)

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 85pts] (Imagifier hangs with them)
. 2x Battle Sister: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Boltgun, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Sister Superior: Chainsword, Combi-melta, Inferno pistol

+ Elites +

Imagifier [3 PL, 45pts]: Tale of the Stoic (Did I say AP-1 counts as AP 0? Make that AP-2 as well.)

+ Fast Attack +

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 100pts] (Both Seraphim squads are meant as support. For whatever. They can help the BSS if they encounter something they can't handle. They can deep-strike enemy tanks with their Infernos. Or just harass the enemy - whatever the game calls for)
. 2x Seraphim: 4x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Seraphim Superior: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 100pts]
. 2x Seraphim: 4x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Seraphim Superior: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

+ Dedicated Transport +

Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter (For one of the BSS, the other one would waddle the closest objective.)

As usual, feedback and comments very much welcome.

Helverin can not suffer clise melee battle. They are as good at it as a lemanruss or rhino.

True, sorry if I put it the wrong way. I meant the two large ones.

Great update to the list! The seraphim are a good choice because it will give your opponents some hesitation when charging you because they wont want to have to deal with them deep striking. I'm not that knowledgeable with the other SoB stuff but the armigers will be a good distraction and take away fire from your other units. All I have to say is maybe try and find a way to put in an exorcist for long range out of sight fire but that might be hard with points, otherwise love the list!

Thanks!
An Exorcist won't be possible sadly. I'm already not so happy about how small the 2 BSS are, can't really cut enough down to get space for an Exorcist.
OTOH, even if it's obviously not a full replacement, both Questoris have Ironstorms, which can indirect fire over 72"

You might look into making the two questoris more resilient as a team, -- you can give one a permanent 4+ shield, and keep the other a permanent 2+ base armor save, meaning that one doesn't have to shift its shield each turn so the other one CAN shift its shield each turn. That way, you never end up with someone cherry pickign the one you don't rotate shields on to go after with all their big guns, and even if yo uhave to spend 5 cp to do it, you can keep them both safer all game. Consider they will both seek melee, but the crusader is almost as happy shooting. The warden NEEDS melee.

The melee one already thanks you for the extra point of armor, too, once you get into it with stuff that maybe has 1 or 2 points of ap on their many damaging melee attacks (I agree with your agreeing! good choice) .. but making the team able to be better protected as a duo is critical when you have multiple questoris in play. I would personally start by lascannoning your 2+ save guy so you switched his shields to 4+, then lascannon the other guy with a dozen or so more. And that's with my own, not very tank phase army, that has only the 18 lascnnons. Lots of compeitive guys drop a lot more hurt in the tank phase of the game! (Alternately, there is a warlord trait that lets your invuln shield on the other guy also be used in melee, which might with rotation give you a 4++ melee shield, that would be also worth considering.)

To give you an idea, my own army would start by assigning old grudges to ONE of your knights, and shoot it with six lascannon, rerolling all 1's. sure, they only hit on bs 4, but odds are, you rotate shield. I would then shoot the other one with another dozen such lascannons (not rerolling ones, or having old grudges) but its a serious threat to your 2 guys. If however, both could get their shields to 4+, you will eat fewer wounds from the 3 ap weaponry used on you. (plasma is going to be wicked common in this meta, I believe, and you will reduce damage from meltas just as much because you would rather be pushed to the 4++ than a 5++ shield any day.) Against battlecannon, you suddenly don't have to rotate shields on the 2+ guy (goes to 4+) and the other one, you paid 1 cp to not have to bother rotating. So saving!

Its a choice, but I think its worth the CP for you, as these two units are worth almost half your army, spending even 2 cp each is a bargain.

I appreciate the long post, especially the "real life application IF YOU DON'T DO THE THING" It makes sense, yes.

Adding another heirloom would cost me 2 of my current 7 remaining CP, not a huge fan of it - for now.
What I did instead is I removed the Warden's Knight Seneschal (+1 A) (and his Warlordness, to be precise) and gave the Warlord to the Crusader with Ion Bulwark.
Edit: Oh, I also bit the bullet and went Mechanicum for the FNP of 6 for once again more standing power.

Now the Crusader has a permanent 4+ Invul and the Warden keeps his 2+ Save.

I don't know about a "warlord trait for 4+ melee shield", but I also don't have Engine War yet, maybe it's from there?


There's also two other, BoS-related thoughts I had where I'd like some input.

a) I could exchange one of the Seraphims for a Dominion-Squad (Superior with Power Sword, 2 Storm Bolters, Flamer, Meltagun, 1 Normie, 98pts) - But I lack the experience to guess if that's a good choice or not in exchange

b) I could also give one of the Seraphims Hand-flamers instead of Infernos (and the Superior a Plasma Pistol), this way they'd be able to profit from the Holy Trinity stratagem.
Although seeing how little CP I have (currently 7), I'm not sure how much stratagems I could play - again, lacking the experience to properly judge that idea.

c) I could also go down to one unit of Seraphims, get a second Rhino and put the remaining like ~30 pts in BSS-meatshields. Both (Rhino plus Meaties) meaning the BSS would need more firepower diverted to them that wouldn't be shooting at the Knights.

As I remember, its a different warlord option than the ion bulwark, that lets you use your shield in melee as well as in being shot. So, when you then rotate shields for that 5++ invuln, it can become a 4++ invuln -- that also works in melee.

That's as I remember it but my friend hasn't been playing knights since marine ravengaurd got on crack about a year ago, so its been a while (basically since last nova) since I watched him army build and then got my face planted by angry knights testing it out.

2+ and 4++ is a good way though -- 2+ in melee has some protection against stuff that is ap1 or 2, that is even better or as good as a melee 4++ shield. So I approve!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the relic sanctuary, is the one that gives you a 5++ in melee AND in shooting invuln. From the knitghts codex.

Talked a bit more to people, including one Krast player who used to play pure Knights.

After that and some additional thinking (including stuff I learned here), I came up with the following list.

Tried to keep the Knights a bit tankier (@Dukeofstuff ) and gave everyone "something" to give them better saves or invuls.
Knights are still there to get drek done, Sisters are still there to ObSec mostly.



+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [102 PL, 6CP, 1,996pts] +++ ++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [72 PL, 10CP, 1,375pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment CP Household Choice: Questor Mechanicus . . House Krast: Household Tradition: Cold Fury + Stratagems + Exalted Court [-1CP]: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom + Lord of War + Knight Crusader [26 PL, 490pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon, Titanic Feet, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark . . Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer Knight Errant [23 PL, 435pts]: Character (Heirloom of the House), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Reaper Chainsword, Thermal Cannon, Titanic Feet Knight Warden [23 PL, 450pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Sanctuary, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Titanic Feet, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Krast): First Knight . . Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [30 PL, -4CP, 621pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment CP [-2CP] Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart + Stratagems + Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy + HQ + Canoness [3 PL, -1CP, 65pts]: Brazier of Holy Fire, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heroine in the Making, Inferno pistol, Relic: Litanies of Faith, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith + Troops + Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 85pts] . . Battle Sister: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades . . Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Simulacrum Imperialis . . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter . . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Flamer, Frag & Krak grenades . . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-melta, Frag & Krak grenades Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 85pts] . . Battle Sister: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades . . Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Simulacrum Imperialis . . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter . . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Flamer, Frag & Krak grenades . . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-melta, Frag & Krak grenades Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 85pts] . . Battle Sister: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades . . Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Simulacrum Imperialis . . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter . . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Flamer, Frag & Krak grenades . . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-melta, Frag & Krak grenades + Elites + Imagifier [3 PL, 45pts]: Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Tale of the Stoic + Fast Attack + Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 100pts] . . 2x Seraphim: 4x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades . . Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Power sword . . Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols, Frag & Krak grenades . . Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols, Frag & Krak grenades + Dedicated Transport + Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 78pts]: Storm bolter