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KT: If a chargee kills its charger, it can still make a 3" move right?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Just making sure I got this right: The chargee can still choose to consolidate if it managed to kill the charger right?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Correct. Still limited by all the usual constraints for consolidation.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






If the chargee isn't within 1" of an enemy when selected in the fight phase (because they've killed the charger with some sort of ability prior to that) then no, their fight sequence ends at step 2.

2. Choose Targets
First, you must pick the target model, or models, for the attacks. To target an enemy model, the attacking model must be within 1" of that model, and the enemy model must be visible to the attacking model. Models that charged this battle round can only target enemy
models that they charged or that charged them earlier in the battle round. If there are no valid targets, this fight
sequence ends.


If the chargee kills the charger during step 4 of the chargee's fight sequence then you have obviously passed step 2 and will always progress through all remaining steps because only step 2 has a clause that ends the fight sequence prematurely.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/09/02 21:38:44


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





@DarknessEternal @Scott-S6: Thanks guys!

@Scott-S6: Your last line answers my question. Very detailed replies as always. Thanks man!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Scott-S6 wrote:
If the chargee isn't within 1" of an enemy when selected in the fight phase (because they've killed the charger with some sort of ability prior to that) then no, their fight sequence ends at step 2.

2. Choose Targets
First, you must pick the target model, or models, for the attacks. To target an enemy model, the attacking model must be within 1" of that model, and the enemy model must be visible to the attacking model. Models that charged this battle round can only target enemy
models that they charged or that charged them earlier in the battle round. If there are no valid targets, this fight
sequence ends.


If the chargee kills the charger during step 4 of the chargee's fight sequence then you have obviously passed step 2 and will always progress through all remaining steps because only step 2 has a clause that ends the fight sequence prematurely.



Just an addition to this discussion:

If somehow the charger gets killed, the chargee can still Pile In to another target as there's this stipulation on page 34 under the heading "Models that can Fight":

Any model that charged or was charged in this battle round, or that is within 1" of an enemy model, can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase.


so by virtue of it having been charged, it is still eligible to fight and can still Pile In. If there are enemy models within 3", therefore, it can proceed to Step 2 (Choose targets).
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






As long as the charger didn't fail to roll high enough.

To make a successful charge roll, the model must finish its move within 1" of at least one of the target models. A model that does so is said to have charged, and the enemy models that are within 1" of it at the end of its move are said to have been charged. It cannot move within 1" of an enemy model that was not a target of its charge. If the model cannot finish its move while following these restrictions, the charge fails and the model is not said to have charged

There's no specific language like that around overwatch (and nothing in the commentary) but it seems reasonable that you don't count as having been charged if you kill the charger with overwatch fire.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/06 13:47:06


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Scott-S6 wrote:
As long as the charger didn't fail to roll high enough.

To make a successful charge roll, the model must finish its move within 1" of at least one of the target models. A model that does so is said to have charged, and the enemy models that are within 1" of it at the end of its move are said to have been charged. It cannot move within 1" of an enemy model that was not a target of its charge. If the model cannot finish its move while following these restrictions, the charge fails and the model is not said to have charged

There's no specific language like that around overwatch (and nothing in the commentary) but it seems reasonable that you don't count as having been charged if you kill the charger with overwatch fire.



I mean if the charge was successful but the charger somehow died, the chargee can still make a Pile In move when it's his turn to get activated. If he makes a Pile In move that gets him in melee range of other enemy models, he can fight.

EDIT: Yes, this is confirmed. You answered this yourself Scott. Your words:

Also note that you can fight if you were charged successfully even if the model that charged you is dead and you don't have any enemies within 1" once your turn comes around - so if you can get within 1" of an enemy with your pile-in move then fun commences.


Man, I'm getting so forgetful these days.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/06 14:52:30


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






Getting zapped in the psychic would be the most plausible occurrence for that.

Yep, you still get to pile-in and you can fight if you make it to within 1" of an enemy (remembering that in the opposite case, where the chargee dies a charger can't fight anyone they didn't charge - so always declare your charge against everyone that can't overwatch you just in case).
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





These rules seem very complicated and un-intuitive?
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






Baxx wrote:
These rules seem very complicated and un-intuitive?

These are edge cases being discussed rather than typical occurrences.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Scott-S6 wrote:
Getting zapped in the psychic would be the most plausible occurrence for that.

Yep, you still get to pile-in and you can fight if you make it to within 1" of an enemy (remembering that in the opposite case, where the chargee dies a charger can't fight anyone they didn't charge - so always declare your charge against everyone that can't overwatch you just in case).


Thanks Scott-S6! This is all the confirmation I need.

Baxx wrote:
These rules seem very complicated and un-intuitive?


Yep, what Scott-S6 said. Nearly two years playing Kill Team and I've yet to see this scenario happen. I'm having fun drilling down into the rules though. ^_^

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/08 16:10:06


 
   
Made in ca
Cackling Chaos Conscript






 PPPointyEars wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
As long as the charger didn't fail to roll high enough.

To make a successful charge roll, the model must finish its move within 1" of at least one of the target models. A model that does so is said to have charged, and the enemy models that are within 1" of it at the end of its move are said to have been charged. It cannot move within 1" of an enemy model that was not a target of its charge. If the model cannot finish its move while following these restrictions, the charge fails and the model is not said to have charged

There's no specific language like that around overwatch (and nothing in the commentary) but it seems reasonable that you don't count as having been charged if you kill the charger with overwatch fire.



I mean if the charge was successful but the charger somehow died, the chargee can still make a Pile In move when it's his turn to get activated. If he makes a Pile In move that gets him in melee range of other enemy models, he can fight.


That's if he dies to something other than Overwatch, right? Reactions are completely resolved before making the charge roll (pg. 24). So if you die to Overwatch, you haven't even rolled yet to see if your charge would have been successful, so I don't see how the Overwatching model could be considered to have been successfully charged.

Also note that you can fight if you were charged successfully even if the model that charged you is dead and you don't have any enemies within 1" once your turn comes around - so if you can get within 1" of an enemy with your pile-in move then fun commences.


Yes, that makes sense, with the caveat above that it can't be your Overwatch that killed it. It would need to be something in the Psychic phase or some other weirdness like a strategem that lets a third model shoot into combat (no idea if such a thing exists tho). Definitely an unusual circumstance!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/23 20:43:26


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Wasteland wrote:
 PPPointyEars wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
As long as the charger didn't fail to roll high enough.

To make a successful charge roll, the model must finish its move within 1" of at least one of the target models. A model that does so is said to have charged, and the enemy models that are within 1" of it at the end of its move are said to have been charged. It cannot move within 1" of an enemy model that was not a target of its charge. If the model cannot finish its move while following these restrictions, the charge fails and the model is not said to have charged

There's no specific language like that around overwatch (and nothing in the commentary) but it seems reasonable that you don't count as having been charged if you kill the charger with overwatch fire.



I mean if the charge was successful but the charger somehow died, the chargee can still make a Pile In move when it's his turn to get activated. If he makes a Pile In move that gets him in melee range of other enemy models, he can fight.


That's if he dies to something other than Overwatch, right? Reactions are completely resolved before making the charge roll (pg. 24). So if you die to Overwatch, you haven't even rolled yet to see if your charge would have been successful, so I don't see how the Overwatching model could be considered to have been successfully charged.

Also note that you can fight if you were charged successfully even if the model that charged you is dead and you don't have any enemies within 1" once your turn comes around - so if you can get within 1" of an enemy with your pile-in move then fun commences.


Yes, that makes sense, with the caveat above that it can't be your Overwatch that killed it. It would need to be something in the Psychic phase or some other weirdness like a strategem that lets a third model shoot into combat (no idea if such a thing exists tho). Definitely an unusual circumstance!


Sorry it took quite a while to respond. These days, due to the pandemic, RL priorities have been piling up.

About your comment:

Good point! Will sift through further!
   
 
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